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To: aspasia

“OK, so it IS about fault, punishment and responsibility. “

No it’s about controlling behavior via consequences and/or rewards... or THREATS of consequences and PROMISES of rewards.

It’s like training your dog or your kids to do the “right thing”. You dish out bad consequences for bad behavior, and rewards for good behavior. Most will learn and remember those “lessons” and act accordingly. A few may require multiple “lessons” and a very very few never “learn”.

The “pursuit of happiness” is the ultimate driver of human behavior (animals too, for that matter). Good or bad consequences that result from some behavior determine whether he’s going to be happy or not. His INNATE ability to learn and remember those experiences allow him to “predict” which behavior will cause him increased happiness or pain. And those “cause and effect” lessons allow him to make better future choices of behavior in his pursuit of happiness.

The concepts of “fault”, “responsibility” and “punishment” only arise in the context of “free will”, which in my view is an illusion. We have “will” but it is not “free” of the “hardware” we were born with and the vagaries of the environment that surrounds us.

If there is free will then those concepts are valid, if not then they don’t make sense.

It’s really that simple. I don’t understand why it’s so hard to grasp.


80 posted on 10/21/2023 1:33:16 PM PDT by aquila48 (Do not let them make you "care" ! Guilting you is how they control you. )
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To: aquila48
It’s really that simple. I don’t understand why it’s so hard to grasp.

Please don't condescend.

81 posted on 10/21/2023 1:48:23 PM PDT by aspasia
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To: aquila48
Your idea of "free" is one kind among others.

Agreed, to be "free" means to be free of something. You say that something is the "'hardware' we were born with and the vagaries of the environment that surrounds us."

But free can also mean to be free to act--particularly to act contrarily--while living in this natural hardware and environment.

Examples of this kind of freedom have us free to act contrary to any rewards and punishments designed to fix us.

This view of freedom is very important for the idea of freedom of speech. Government rewards and punishments applied to our speech would be the natural first steps toward the suppression of this view of "free."

85 posted on 10/21/2023 3:31:27 PM PDT by aspasia
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