Tolkien Teaches Us to Take Courage

The Daily Telegraph via The National Post ^ | 1/6/03 | Tom Shippey

[Elenya]

I agree with your interpretation of SC. I was devastated by his decision but I did find him noble and tragic.

[Elenya]

I would add the last Gollum-Smeagol scene when Smeagol shivers with excitement at Gollum's plot about Shelob. The look of admiration in his eyes for Gollum and his feverish anticipation was priceless!

[Elenya]

was = were

[HairOfTheDog]

Ring Ping!!

[Alkhin]

junior hobbits Merry and Pippin

ROFL!!!

[Cap'n Crunch]

Yes, sometimes it is surely difficult to keep going.

[Alkhin]

carton! There you are!! I was wondering in the Hobbit Hole where you were...(do you think Elijah Wood would make a great Sydney Carton????)...

you hit upon the very reason why I like the character of Pippin so much. If you read up on Tolkien discussing what he was trying to do with Frodo and the others in FOTR, you find that Pippin originally wasnt there...that it was a Bolger type character who was just going to go with them until Crickhollow...and then it was just to Bree, and somehow ended up in Rivendell; and by that time had evovled into Peregrin Took (after he decided upon the name of Frodo Baggins) and had Gandalf arguing with Elrond over letting Pippin and Merry go along.

I got the distinct feeling from reading of Tolkien's account that Pippin was a character (regardless of the many name changes he underwent) that would NOT go away/shut up.

I LOVE characters like that!!!

In trying to write myself, there are a few characters I have come up with that won't go away...that tend to take over...then the writer has to decide what he is going to do...ignore the character, or give in to it.

I LOVE SYDNEY CARTON AS WELL.

[BibChr]

I enjoyed it. Thanks!

Dan

[Skywalk]

Something occurred to me, that Darth Vader is, in essence, a Gollum-Smeagol made central to the story arc. In Empire Strikes Back we see Vader's inner conflict, though he believes he can turn Luke to the Dark Side and overthrow the Emperor(still using power to "achieve good") He also goes soft on his son, and doesn't kill any officers when the Millenium Falcon escapes, he just strides off.

Anyways, it occurred to me that at the end Anakin/Smeagol wins out, unlike LotR, and he throws the Emperor and his love of the Dark Side down the reactor shaft. In LotR, Smeagol loses the internal battle, and falls into the lava, taking the Dark Side/Ring with him, though not intentionally.

Yeah, the more I think of it, the more Vader is Smeagol, if he HAD been redeemed and become the central focus of the story. It was one of the few genius elements of Lucas' story, though he's ruined the franchise with the prequels.

[My back yard]

I am thinking about the ending speech from Sam, in TTT, as it relates to your question about Smeagol/Gollum, and I think that yes, he might. Smeagol was greatly moved by the speech I think. Even all the hideousness of what he had become over the long years with the ring -- and maybe because he becomes more Smeaglish than Gollumish the longer they are not in possession of prreecciouss -- Smeagol is possibly able to be more powerful. I love questions like that. 8^) And the character Sam in the books has always been a favorite of mine too.

[Elenya]

Yes, Sam's speech was very moving. But by the time Smeagol heard it, Gollum had already taken over. The alleged betrayal of Frodo wouldn't allow Smeagol to ever win out over Gollum. Frodo's love was Smeagol's only hope at redemption as it allowed him to transfer his love for the ring to another human being.

But when he felt betrayed by his new love (something close to filial love, with Sam and Smeagol being the rival siblings), he had no other choice but to transfer his love back to the ring.

[Anti-Bubba182]

DONATE TODAY!!!. SUPPORT FREE REPUBLIC

Donate Here By Secure Server

Or mail checks to
FreeRepublic , LLC
PO BOX 9771
FRESNO, CA 93794

or you can use

PayPal at Jimrob@psnw.com
STOP BY AND BUMP THE FUNDRAISER THREAD

[My back yard]

as it allowed him to transfer his love for the ring to another human being.

Well, another hobbit anyway. ;^)

[Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy]

Actually, Shippey has Tolkien's old job before Tolkien went to Oxford....Leeds University, I think? If you check out one of the FOTR documentaries (I forget which) they mention that; also the Tolkien bio that has been on PBS recently.

[carton253]

No, I don't think Elijah Wood would make a good Sydney Carton, and I don't say that because I think Elijah Wood is not a good actor. He's good.

One, he's not old enough. Carton is in his 40's... Wood barely in his '20's.

There is a hardness/bitterness/ruin in Sydney Carton. I don't think Wood could pull that off. If I would cast anyone from FOTR, I would use either Sean Bean or Viggo.

And the actor who played Carton would have to play Darnay (or I would have to find the Carton's actor identical twin). I don't Elijah would make a good Darnay either. Darnay is a haunted man. So, I don't know who I would cast but I would take a hard look at Roger Howarth. He could do both. But, I would probably see lots of actors.

[ksen]

Those are good abservations about Smeagol/Anakin and Gollum/Darth. Oh, and I agree with you about the prequels. ;^)

[Elenya]

Well, another hobbit anyway. ;^)

I guess "hobbit" didn't seem charged enough to carry conviction, LOL!

[Elenya]

ping!

[mtngrl@vrwc]

" ...in the books, Sam ended up being my favorite character (after Gollum and for different reasons) because he is in my mind the real hero of the quest. I remember being so moved by his purity of soul and his extraordinary courage. I have a feeling Astin will be up to the task."

Sam's my favorite character too. His total devotion to his best friend, Frodo, is what we need more of in this world. He knowingly walks into danger and what he is certain will lead to his death, all because he cares more about Frodo than himself. He never once asks himself if following Frodo is a good idea in the light of the fact that they are headed straight into Mordor, the most evil place in Middle Earth. If Frodo had turned aside from his task I doubt if Sam would have taken the ring and gone into Mordor alone, but he darn sure was not going to allow Frodo to face this terrible challenge alone.

[mtngrl@vrwc]

I think my favorite Smeagol scene in the movie is in the forbidden pool.

Mine is the scene when Faramir is questioning Smeagol/Gollum after capturing him. That whole argument between Smeagol and Gollum is brilliant. When he looks towards the audience at the end of it and hisses "My precious", .... fabulous!