Am I Really Alone? (VANITY)

papasmurf | 11/13/2004 | papasmurf

[papasmurf]

A large part of the greatness of this Country has always been our ability, and willingness, to "see" the other guy's point of view. To be fair and just and considerate. From our politics to education, from our finance sectors to our industries, from our Congressional districts all the way down to the placement of our bus stops in our Cities and Towns. Words like fair, equal, good of the people, needs of the Country.. have always been used to help us make our decisions, and describe us and our actions.

We have always been able to find and make "win-win" compromises. Concessions by the opposing parties involved in the process have always been an American staple, and an example to the world, since I can remember. We, as a united people, have always aimed for, if not perfection, correctness. Being correct was the "baseline" for us, being the "best" was the goal.

Being popular wasn't as important as being correct and winning wasn't as important as how you won. Call me naive, blind, or just gullible, those are the value lessons I learned from my Parents, our society, and the world.

In years past, America was known to be a "progressive" nation, that is, before the word progressive was assigned a new definition and indelibly linked with the word "liberal". I just knew, at the end of the "cultural revolution" (approx. 1965-1971), that we would go beyond all that was bad. That we would progress. That we would have clean air, equality and prosperity for all Americans, that we would find a way to make war nearly obsolete, that my children would not grow up fearing the police, would not know the hatred of others because of their color, economic status, political preference, their geography. We would have endless opportunities at our disposal, that our rights would be protected, that America would always find ways to get past our differences and forge a better Nation for all, that we could and would find ways of reducing taxes, limiting government, empowering the individual, that our Constitution would be honored, defended and, upheld.

What a shame that instead of teaching our children how and on what basis to accept, we legally mandate tolerance. What a shame that the old adage "a good lie is easier to believe than a bad truth" has become a National reality. What a shame that our politicians will fight for "party unity", rather than fight for "American Unity". And what an absolute shame that we seek to outlaw, outright ban, the Name of Our Lord in public places. Instead of being America the Proud, America the Home of the Brave, we have become America the Guilty, America the Timid, America the Home of the Shamed.

Shame, shame, shame on us for allowing ourselves to become so divided, so utterly and completely brainwashed into believing that which we know not to be true. Shame on us for placing our loyalties to our party, instead of our Country. To think of "me", rather than "us". If anything, above all else, has been the single largest factor contributing to our division, this "mindset" has been it. If I am wrong about everything else in my life, that's ok, for I am sure I am right about this.

As a politically radical teenager, these are the thoughts that caused me to make the decision to become and support the Republicans. You see, I saw the future, if you will, and I knew then, almost 40 years ago, that the Republicans offered the best hope for it. For advancement of our Country in a world setting, for equality, for economic growth, for justice, for achievement of the individual, for helping other countries and peoples.

I could write a book on who did what to who and the negative results that ensued for us and our Country. But that is not what this article is about. It's not about me or them. It's about being American, in all that-that means. But mostly...being correct. I have always embraced the belief that extremism, from the left or right, from the believers or non-believers, from the rich or the poor, was unhealthy. That a balance is needed and is healthy. Therefore, you can easily see why, I believe that Democrats and Republicans serve a very useful, and needed, purpose. Simply put, the Dem's pull us to the left while, at the same time, the Pubby's pull us to the right, keeping us "centered". Center is good, it's healthy, it's productive. It’s equal. Center represents something for all Americans and all of America's best interests. Some give and some take. And the best thing about it all is this…when we are too far to the right, the left can pull harder, forcing us back into the middle. When we have gone too far to the left, the right does likewise. What a great Country! Or not?

Sometimes one side pulls too much or for too long. Tilt! That is where we are now, and have been for sometime. Like about 10 years, or more. Political power-mongering, interference from outsiders and a strong and sustained push from the left, caused us to plummet downwards in a spiral towards a place called socialism.

And yet here we are, at the very cusp of reclaiming our "center", our balance, our sanity. How will these current events play out? Will half of us ignore them, pretending true opportunity for real progress doesn't exist? Will we allow ourselves to be further divided, or will we circle the wagons and continue to sling arrows and build further dividing walls?

I'm hopeful, and I Pray, that we, all Americans, can recognize the opportunity, and responsibility, we have in front of us...right now.

So I ask you, does anyone else feel this way or, am I really alone?

:O)

P

[papasmurf]

I wasn't sure if this was the correct forum to post this on. Apologies if I made a mistake.

[BenLurkin]

In all my adult life, some 30 years, the Republicans have NEVER pulled "too much or for too long".

NEVER. And it it is about time they did.

[polygirl]

I'd have to disagree. I'm a moderate, and I'll have to say that never in my 51 years of living can I recall a more contentious, hateful election as the one just passed. The whole process felt torturous to me, and I am profoundly relieved that it is finally over.

From my point of view, both parties are guilty of shameful acts of divisiveness. With every politically motivated shot fired, no matter which party fired it, the pull was extreme, or at least that's how I experienced it. It's all spin spin spin - being disingenuous is the status quo of politics today - keep 'em in the dark and feed 'em BS until they don't know what to believe.

My only comfort is that saying that goes, "Democracy is the worst system of government in the world - except for all those other systems."

Polygirl

[BenLurkin]

We are at a point in our nation's political life when there is no point of 'moderation' as between two widely divergent political world views. The remaining Conservatives understand and cherish the Constitution, free enterprise and the joy of liberty. Those on the left view politics, history and the future though the eyes of Karl Marx and other like minded follow-on "philosophers". There is simply no middle ground between these forces and the Republicans have for too long allowed the democrats to drag this nation inch by inch into a Marxist nightmare. It is Fabian socialism practiced by patient enemies of America. The Republicans need to come back strong and start dismantling the bureaucracy's at every level of government.

I was referring to the practice of governance where to the democrat party "bipartisan" has always meant giving them something for everything the Republicans attempt. A practice that is rarely if ever reciprocated in return.

You see, I wasn't referring to the election, but you no doubt observed that the democrat campaign was vicious and deceptive. Republican's tires slashed in Wisconsin, Republican offices invaded and vandalized in various other places, Moore's phony 'documentary' and the CBS forged memos were but the tip of the iceberg.

The Republicans campaigned hard but their's was a campaign of substance and fact. Let's face it: that Kerry was a stooge for the Viet Cong is an ugly thing, but it was HIS doing. The pro-American side would have been remiss not to point out his record of collaboration and appeasement to our enemies. It was just that -- a matter of factual record.

[StoneFury]

[polygirl]

Though as you can tell from my response to BenLurkin, I don't agree with everything you said, I agree with and thank you for making the main point, i.e. that the divisiveness needs to come to an end and we need to find a way once again be "one nation, indivisible." I am very troubled by the clear escalation of hostilities here at home that we've witnessed this year.

Quite honestly, though I respect him in many ways, I'm disappointed in President Bush for exacerbating the problem by pandering to religious extremists (and I mean extremists, as opposed to moderate Christians like myself, many of whom are turned off by the likes of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson). President Bush has given good lip service to being a uniter instead of a divider, but his actions in many instances have said otherwise. On this point history will be the judge as to how he conducts himself in his second term, not having to worry about being re-elected. I dearly hope he does the right thing not just according to his own conscience, but also according to the will of *all* of the people, not just those who voted for him.

I realize that it may be politically incorrect to say this here, but that never stopped me from calling it like I see it, and in my book, the president gets several points off so far for failing to be a president most people can manage to respect, at least moderately. The fact that he is so clearly disliked by so many democrats, not just the extremely liberal ones but the moderate ones as well, makes it hard for me to dismiss the feeling that he really doesn't care all that much what Americans who don't share his views want, and that makes him president of only some of the people instead of all of the people.

Loyalty to the president is important, but I can't in good conscience be blindly loyal. Neither am I disingenuous enough to blast liberals for the slightest perceived slight, as so many in this forum do, while President Bush fails to walk his talk and take clear steps to bring us all together. I hold all presidents accountable on this point, no more, and no less.

Of course, YMMV (Your mileage may vary.)

Polygirl

[papasmurf]

Can it be? Are you the Mom of a married female officer to an enlisted man?...Also.

:O)

P

[ladyinred]

Would you mind telling me what the President said or did that was so ugly? The swiftvets told the truth if that is what you mean, and it needed to be told. I am curious what you feel our side did wrong. Thanks.

[polygirl]

Ben, I'm afraid you and I may have to agree to disagree on this one. I know many very fine moderate democrats with whom I have spoken at length, some of whom I consider friends, and none resemble in attitude the extreme liberal you describe. Guess what - they don't like Michael Moore either!

The blue state/red state thing, though useful in practical terms, has taken on a life of its own in ways that just makes the division worse than it already is. Yes, myopic passifist liberals who think we can just engage terrorists in dialogue and get them to see the light are thick upon the ground. And yes, extremist Marxian liberals exist who are too naive to recognize how consistent capitalism is with human nature. And yes, there are plenty of schmucks like Michael Moore around to give moderate democrats a bad name. And I agree that slashing tires and so forth is despicable. But these are not the democrats I know, though they *are* the ones the media loves to showcase, just like it likes to sensationalize negative images of the war in Iraq. The media doesn't give a fig as long as it it gets our attention, and extremists do get our attention, don't they? But just like religious extremists make many moderate republicans uncomfortable, so do the extremist liberals make the moderate democrats uncomfortable from what I've seen.

One of the great challenges in uniting our country again is persuading people to stop painting huge groups of people who have some things - but not all things - in common with the same brush. I invite you to join me in setting a good example by resisting that urge. What I see from right to left and left to right is a bell curve, with lots of moderate, moral, good, patriotic Americans making up most of it. Many of the democratic ones are feeling disenfranchised - they held their noses and voted for Kerry because they are still more philosophically, moderately liberal than conservative, but they were less than enthusiastic about the guy and have understandable concerns about the ability to the Democratic party to see that their interests are adequately represented. Lord knows it abandoned them this time.

YMMV

Respectfully,
Polygirl

[polygirl]

I doubt I'm the only one, but for sake of discussion, I do qualify. Do we know each other? Don't tell me you're a southern boy living way up north where it gets really cold!

Polygirl

[papasmurf]

I'm a Cali transplant. Been in Ga. since late 98. My eldest Daughter, was a 1LT married to a SSG.

:O)

P

[capebuffalo]

Here's the problem we're all guilty of.
We've allowed the media and the sudo-intellectuals to label each other as African Americans, Latinos, Native Americans(That one floors me since if we were born here we're native Americans) White, Asiatics, Muslims, Jews, Christians, Neocons, right wing, left wing, gays(another one that floors me; definition of gay is happy, last time I looked) Christian Right(not all rights are Christian) rich,poor, last but not least,"politically correct". You could go on and on. The Media,Academic Community,Hollywood,the entertainment community, the ACLU, lawyers,politicans are perpetuating a division. They love it! You hear every day that we're a nation divided. They salivate. Until we recognize that we are all Americans,we'll have a serious problem. If we don't stand together,we'll fall together for a nation divided cannot stand. Incidentally, Since there are those among us who want to see that happen, It's important that we have a dialog with those between the extremes or we're doomed to be a third world country. A talk host by the name of Bob Grant may have it right, when he says the country is sick and getting sicker.(sad,true observation.) The cure rest with all of us . We're all Americans and should be proud of it. Stop the label crap! That's where we should begin! I'm tired of this politically correct stuff!What say you?

[polygirl]

Nope, not referring to swiftvets, though I dislike their tactics as I dislike it no matter which side takes the character assasination route. Kerry is clearly too much the intellectual for many people's tastes, but as the mom and mom-in-law of two soldiers, I didn't appreciate the swiftvets' disparaging his service any more than I appreciate the dems going on a witchhunt to try to disparage President Bush's service.

Military service is a keenly emotional topic guaranteed to be divisive, and in this respect one was just as guilty as the other in my own view. In both cases their stridency and the fact that they each had a dog in the fight (so to speak) made it very difficult to tell what the truth really was, especially for people without the patience, desire, time, skills and resources to dig very deeply for something objective, if such even existed. What is more outrageous to me is this is precisely the goal, not to be truthful, but to cast reasonable doubt in hopes of swaying voters to their side. The spin docs count on people soon tiring of trying to figure out what is what and deciding to believe what they want to believe. But is it the truth? Maybe so, and maybe no.

No, as far as President Bush is concerned, I think he made a grave error in deciding to support a constitutional amendment on the marriage issue. As he has been quoted recently, he was earning political capital, but at the expense of alienating moderate liberals who see such a stance as lacking in compassion, even hostile toward people who are Americans like anyone else. If that's where it ended, knowing such an amendment has little chance of success would perhaps let him off the hook, but it set off a chain of events where the states hastened to amend their own constitutions, and that's a much bigger issue to those who care about such things. In their view it unjustly denies people who aren't hurting anyone equal rights on, once again, a very personal, highly divisive issue, the right to be a family, if a different sort of family, with the same rights and obligations married people are afforded.

Likewise, announcing an intention to place as many strongly conservative supreme court justices like Justice Reinquist on the bench knowing this will fan the flames of that most emotional of issues, the abortion debate, was also divisive. The president may have good intentions and be following his own conscience, but to many people, his conscience is not all that counts.

It is that kind of step taken while remaining silent about and appearing to be unsympathetic toward what many Americans do want that signals to those who care about such issues that President Bush doesn't truly serve them.

By the way, these are not your ultra liberal progressive fans of Michael Moore. They, too, are middle class people of faith, law abiding citizens who work as hard as any blue collar conservative and love America just as much, who want to give their kids a good upbringing and a good education, who pay their taxes just like the president's more conservative supporters and who help their kids say their prayers at night. They also resent that conservatives have co-opted the concept of morality, as if only republicans have good morals. It's terribly unjust and bound to make enemies of people who might otherwise have been much more receptive.

Many of these same folks believe that freedom of religion is protected by the concept of separation of church and state, and that though abortion is a very serious step they might not choose for themselves, it should ultimately be the woman's right to choose. On these issues I understand their concerns and, frankly, agree with them. (Yes, there is a bit of libertarian in me.) Many of my conservative friends would have me believe that these are not legitimate values, but I value freedom and empowering individuals, as Papasmurf referenced, too much to dismiss them out of hand, as President Bush gives the impression that he does, lacking information and actions to the contrary.

This is not to say that these folks don't respect and appreciate President Bush on other issues, but from what I can see, they are disappointed by what seems to be his tendency to act according to the will of some of the people, but not all of the people. That's surely a fine line to walk, but he is the president, and that is his lot.

YMMV,
Polygirl

[polygirl]

Ah, well, then we do have something special in common, don't we? My story, in short form, is that when my son-in-law got his deployment orders, my daughter, who has a degree in criminal science, decided with her husband's encouragement to enlist and go to OCS as a means of jump-starting her career. (This definitely isn't our father's Army, huh?) It was also intended to keep her busy and her mind off worrying about her husband while deployed, though it hasn't worked out that way. Evenso, she has done extremely well, all things considered, and bless his heart, Drew is very proud of his wife, even if she does outrank him. Besides, he's no fool. As I'm sure you know, the benes are signficantly better when one of them is a commissioned officer.

Despite the fact that it has been a tough year, Drew now has a redeployment date that will have him back in Hawaii by year's end, after which both have orders for nondeployable jobs at Ft. Benning. She spoke to him today, and he says they are busier than ever over there. No wonder considering that a lot of the snakes hiding out in Fallujah have moved to other cities. He is an infantry squad leader with the 25th Infantry Division (light) attached to the 1st ID in the Sunni triangle, SW of Kirkuk.

So are your two still in?

Polygirl.

[BenLurkin]

Perhaps your 'moderate' friends are actually conservatives and simply don't know it yet. Search their hearts to see if they believe in the Constitution, free enterprise and personal liberty. There is hope if they respond positively.

Otherwise they are in need of focused deprogramming. I'm sure you can convinnce them over time with love that government IS the problem.

[capebuffalo]

polygirl:

Kerry by definition was a traitor. It's the self-anointed pseudo intellectuals who are dividing this country. Kerry service was a sham. The real heroes of Vietnam War are lying in the fields of Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos.
Kerry gave comfort to the enemy and helped in our losing that war. Kerry would have given your security over to the spineless and American hating U.N.
Would you rather have a traitor as your leader or as you say an nonintellectual?
The Swift Vets were right. I suggest you read the book. They helped save this country from sliding into third world Socialism. Bush's presidency is also your lot.
The vast majority of Veterans voted against Kerry.
Read American Evita and you'll see what we're in for if Hillary ever became president. God Forbid!
Abortion, and particularly, late term abortion is wrong. Same sex marriage is an oxymoron . we need an amendment to protect society from liberal judges,since legislators won't take a stand. People have been cohabiting for generations. We don't object to domestic partnerships. We object to dragging the state of matrimony in the mud. I'm not sure what you mean by a moderate liberal when it comes down to killing innocent lives, and the basic structure of a strong society, namely, marriage. Johnny has two mommies or two daddies, is an indication of a sick society that's getting sicker. How can you call people of faith who are pro abortion and pro same sex marriage? That's an oxymoron. You're likely a cafeteria Christian.

[papasmurf]

Polygirl:

He is still in, and currently is in Iraq. Being the job he has, EOD, sends him TDY to all corners of the earth, he just came back from Afganistan and Africa. She left active duty in 2000 in order to give me another Grand Son ( I have 2 from my youngest Daughter )and has since been recalled twice, but thankfully, for short periods each time.
I have another Son in Law also on active duty. He's an SSG in MI also in Iraq.

Please pass my warmest appreciation to your Daughter and Son in Law.

:O)

P

[polygirl]

In general, nicely said. I agree - we're all in this together and the problem can't be solved without everyone's cooperation and participation. And above all, we simply must learn to agree to disagree and respect everyone's right to their opinion. It's the disrespectfulness of it all that is tearing us apart.

Polygirl

[polygirl]

Ben, some of the problem re the Constitution is that it is not clear on some of the issues of the day that people feel strongly about. So asking whether someone believes in the Constitution isn't very useful - everyone would say yes, but that doesn't mean they agree with conservatives on all the issues. Free enterprise and smaller government - no problem. Personal liberty - yes, but. Many moderates are uncomfortable with the tendency of some conservatives, including our president, to advocate for personal liberty but with strings attached. I will say it again, the same sex marriage issue and the president's support for a constitutional amendment leaves many of them very cold. What is more personal than not having the liberty to marry the person we love? From a rational point of view, gender is and should be irrelevant.

As to deprogramming, ewwww, that's a scary concept indeed.

Thanks for writing.

Polygirl

[BenLurkin]

Let's face it -- the liberal way of thinking is very akin to a cult. Deprogramming is a good thing.


Good luck in winning over your left leaning friends. Remember the Tenth Amendment.