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Standards of Reason in the Classroom (Don't need no Damn Conservatives in Academe')
The Chronicle of HIgher Education ^ | 5 December 2003 | MICHAEL BERUBE

Posted on 12/02/2003 1:01:29 PM PST by shrinkermd

The class started off innocuously enough. We were in our fifth week of an undergraduate honors seminar, reading Ishmael Reed's 1972 novel, Mumbo Jumbo, and I was starting to explain how the novel is built on a series of deliberate anachronisms, on the way to asking what these tropes from the 1960s were doing in a novel ostensibly set during the Harlem Renaissance. I began in an obvious (though always fun) place, with Abdul Hamid's encounter with PaPa LaBas at a rent party, where Abdul delivers a tirade presaging the rise of the Nation of Islam and protesting U.S. draft policy during the Vietnam War:

"This is the country where something is successful in direct proportion to how it's put over; how it's gamed. Look at the Mormons. . . .The most fundamental book of the Mormon Church, The Book of Mormon, is a fraud. If we Blacks came up with something as corny as the Angel of Moroni, something as trite and phony as their story that the book is the record of ancient Americans who came here in 600 BC and perished by AD 400, they would deride us with pejorative adjectival phrases like "so-called" and "would-be." They would refuse to exempt our priests from the draft, a privilege extended to every White hayseed's fruit stand which calls itself a Church. But regardless of the put-on, the hype, the Mormons got Utah, didn't they?

Unfortunately, to most of my students, the passage was just so much mumbo jumbo, so I explained briefly that Muhammad Ali's refusal to fight in Vietnam had been incendiary in the mid-1960s but eventually led the United States to reconsider its criteria for conscientious-objector status; that the comparison between members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and members of the Nation of Islam was a fairly common one at the time; and that one nationalist group, the Republic of New Africa, had called for the creation of a separate black nation based in five Southern states, as partial reparation for slavery.

At that point, John, a large white student(Politically correct term for a fat, white guy) in the back of the room, snorted loudly and derisively: "That's completely ridiculous!" he exclaimed. "It may seem ridiculous to you, yes," I replied, "and, for the record, I don't believe there was any possibility that the Republic of New Africa was going to become a reality. I don't endorse it myself. But it was proposed, and some black nationalists pointedly compared their relation with the U.S. government to that of the Mormons."

But John was just getting started. These people are not Africans, he insisted. They are African-Americans. The whole "Africa" thing is a charade; racial separatism and identity politics are tearing this country apart; people have to realize that if they live in this country, no matter how they got here, they are Americans first, and something-Americans second. (Probably offensive to Professor)

Apparently, we had touched a nerve. I pointed out, gently but (I hoped) not patronizingly, that whatever any of us might feel about the various projects of black nationalism, we are, after all, dealing with a character in a novel -- a character, I hastened to add, whose reductive brand of nationalism is ultimately undermined in the course of the narrative. It only makes sense to try to understand what he might be trying to say. And now let's move on to another example of anachronism in Mumbo Jumbo. ...

The other students in the class -- of various colors and genders, some of them born on other continents, some of them first-generation college kids from rural Pennsylvania, none of them African-American -- didn't respond directly to John's outburst. They were more interested in the novel's use of anachronism, and uncertain (as so many other readers have been) about whether to take seriously the novel's various conspiracy theories about Warren Harding's death, about the demise of the Harlem Renaissance, about the role of the Freemasons in American history, and about the rise of Western culture itself. For the moment, the Republic of New Africa had been forgotten once again -- but John simmered throughout the rest of the hour, clearly upset that no one had addressed his comment.

Now, I've dealt with students like John before, and I'm sure I'll see them again, no matter what class I'm teaching. But that semester was different; it was the fall of 2001, and students' nerves and political opinions were especially raw. I negotiated any number of delicate exchanges that semester, and for the past two years I've wondered if I've "dealt with" students like John in the best possible way.(Dealing the underclass, neanderthal is not easy)

After class that day, I talked to John at some length as we wandered through the noontime campus swarms. He was insistent that membership in the American community requires one to subordinate his or her ethnic-national origin, and that he himself wanted to be understood not as an American of Russian or Polish or German "extraction," but simply as an American among other Americans. And he was just sick and tired of African-Americans refusing to do the same.

I replied by telling John something like this: "Your position has a long and distinguished history in debates over immigration and national identity. It's part of the current critique of multiculturalism, of course, and to a point I have some sympathy with it, because I don't think that social contracts should be based on cultural homogeneity." Deep breath. "That said," I went on, "I have to point out that the terms under which people of African descent might be accepted as Americans, in 1820 or 1920 or whenever, have been radically different from the terms under which your ancestors, whoever they were, could be accepted as Americans. You're right to insist that you shouldn't be defined by one's ancestry, but, unfortunately, most African-Americans -- who, by the way, fought and died for integration for many generations -- didn't have that option. And it shouldn't be all that surprising that, when African-Americans finally did have the option of integrating into the larger national community, some of them were profoundly ambivalent about the prospect."

I didn't press the point that Reed's novel is itself profoundly ambivalent about that profound ambivalence; I thought that we were now on terrain that had little to do with the textual details of Mumbo Jumbo, and I was simply trying to come to an understanding with a student who clearly felt very strongly about one of the social issues raised in class. We parted amicably, and I thought that though he wasn't about to agree with me on this one, we had, at least, made our arguments intelligible to each other.

But the dynamic of the class had been changed. From that day forward, John spoke up often, sometimes loudly, sometimes out of turn. He had begun to conceive of himself as the only countervailing conservative voice in a classroom (probably was) full of liberal-left think-alikes, and he occasionally spoke as if he were entitled to reply to every other student's comment -- in a class of 17. He was forceful, intelligent, and articulate. Sometimes he was witty, and he was always knowledgeable about cyberpunk and postmodern science fiction. Often, however, he was obstreperous and out of bounds.(Drat he is smarter than President Bush)

His obstreperousness presented me with not one problem but two. It would have been a relatively simple matter to put the brakes on -- to speak to him, in class or afterward, in such a way as to let him know that he was not, in fact, entitled to comment on every other student's comment. But I did not want to contribute to his growing sense of lonely opposition. Meanwhile, his 16 classmates were not, in fact, a unified left-liberal bloc; some of them were recognizably left of center, but not all. Mere weeks after September 11, my students had sounded off on an extraordinary range of questions, including the question of whether that day marked the death of postmodernism, an issue that The New York Times's Edward Rothstein had raised. I knew my class contained a handful of people adamantly opposed to military action against the Taliban in Afghanistan (that put them well to the left of me), a handful of people who wanted to redraw the Middle East from scratch in the manner of Paul Wolfowitz, and a handful of people who called themselves libertarians but whose politics didn't go much beyond keep-your-laws-off-my-bong.

Actually, some students agreed with John about one thing or another but were simply annoyed that he was taking up so much class time. They began sending me e-mail messages and speaking to me privately about how they did not want John's remarks to set the parameters for class discussion. One student complained that she was wasting time trying to think of things that John wouldn't reply to; another said that he found anti-porn feminism obnoxious, just as John did, but couldn't stand it when people dismissed feminism so sweepingly as to render suspect other people's more careful critiques (his own, for example). If I asked John to cool it, then, he would undoubtedly feel silenced, and I would be in the position of validating what was perhaps, for him, a stifling liberal hegemony over classroom speech; if I failed to restrain him, I would in effect be allowing him to dominate the class, thereby silencing the other students who'd taken the time to speak to me about the problem.

For the remaining weeks of the semester, I tried to split the difference: John spoke more often than any other student, but I did not recognize him every time he asked; when students criticized his remarks, implicitly or explicitly, I did not validate their criticisms, but I did try to let them speak in rough proportion to their numbers. For a while, order was restored.

I've been watching the evolution of campus conservatism for more than 20 years now. I remember vividly the reaction of Accuracy in Academia, Reed Irvine's slightly nutty group (Professor proves he is a liberal with an an hominem attack rather than facts) that tried to recruit vocal right-wing students to report on and root out "liberal bias" in the classroom. Accuracy in Academia has largely disappeared from public view, but conservative activists have kept up the complaint about liberal campus "bias" all the same, and after September 11 some of their efforts have taken an especially nasty turn.

The National Review's culture warrior Stanley Kurtz has recently been instrumental in getting the U.S. House of Representatives to approve a federal "advisory board" to oversee all of the Higher Education Act's Title VI programs in international studies, on the paranoid logic that such programs are spreading anti-Americanism through the works of the late Edward Said; and the at-large culture warrior David Horowitz has begun a dramatic campaign to urge alumni and state legislatures to initiate a "diversity" hiring program to bring more conservative faculty members to the nation's universities. Horowitz recently received a friendly welcome in Colorado, where he met with Gov. Bill Owens and gave public speeches denouncing, among other things, the liberal-leaning cartoons on the office doors of political-science faculty members. (What is wrong with advertising your prejudice?)

More interestingly, Horowitz has also circulated an "Academic Bill of Rights" (he recently sent me a copy for comment via e-mail) that draws on statements by the American Association of University Professors about academic freedom that would, if followed closely, prevent precisely the kind of right-wing hiring initiatives Horowitz is touting. By promoting his Bill of Rights, he can then collect leftist denunciations of academic freedom and make the case that the greatest threats to the free exchange of ideas are ... liberal and leftist faculty members.

Horowitz is exaggerating hysterically when he claims that campuses are one-party states and that 99 percent of all commencement speakers are Democrats, liberals, or Greens. But it's widely understood that English departments are well stocked with liberals, and I've often wished we leftists had less of a presence in literature departments and more of a presence in state legislatures. (Perhaps it's not too late to engineer a straight-up swap.)

Still, I have never seen a conservative student on any of the campuses I've inhabited -- Penn State, the Universities of Illinois and Virginia, and Columbia -- penalized by a professor for his or her beliefs. I have sometimes seen conservative students made "uncomfortable" by the remarks of their peers, and I can even imagine some particularly hypersensitive conservative undergraduates might be intimidated by the forbidding presence of liberal-leaning cartoons on faculty members' office doors. But I don't believe that universities should be in the business of ensuring their students' comfort in such matters.

I knew that Penn State had weathered an exceptionally unpleasant year in 2000-1, when dozens of students had received anonymous racist letters and e-mail messages, and the leader of the Black Student Caucus had received direct death threats. I knew also that my student John had had some kind of run-in with one of the African-American campus demonstrators that year (in which he told the demonstrator he was not a racist). I took all that into consideration in trying to make John feel as if his remarks would always be welcome in my class so long as he respected his peers' rights to contribute as well -- and yet, I couldn't shake the feeling that, although John and students like him might occasionally feel threatened or uncomfortable in classes like mine, they aren't really in any danger at all. Occasionally the local campus conservatives like to point to all the things they think the Penn State administration does for black students: One recent flier complained that there is now a Paul Robeson Center on the campus (and Robeson was a Communist!), whereas the campus conservatives have to meet in a classroom. After I finished shaking my head at the sheer foolishness of the complaint -- did these kids really think that the Paul Robeson Center was established as the headquarters of a black-activist organization? -- I wondered just how many of my conservative white students, if given the chance, would prefer to be black at Penn State, black in the United States.

In late November, we read Richard Powers's 1988 novel, Prisoner's Dilemma. Part of it is set during World War II and involves a curious fantasia about how Walt Disney turns out to be an American of Japanese Ancestry. Appalled by the 1942 order to intern people of Japanese ancestry living in the United States, Disney manages to get two of his employees out of the camps so that they can help him work on a top-secret project, which will not only win this war but prevent all future wars. I noted that Powers is asking whether it is right to fight a totalitarian enemy by employing totalitarian tactics, and I pointed to passages in which he adduces the internment camps as examples of the game-theory problem known as the prisoner's dilemma, hence the title of the novel. Two prisoners must decide whether to confess or trust each other not to squeal. Almost invariably, prisoners choose to confess, even though mutual trust in the other's steadfastness is clearly the way to go if they want to (a) stay alive and (b) keep their jail time to a minimum. Powers's point, of course, is that a world without mutual trust would be a world of unending world war.

Because it was the fall of 2001, internment camps were hot topics. The two previous times I had taught the novel, in 1995 and 1999, my students had never heard about the imprisonment of Japanese-Americans during World War II, or about the confiscation of their property. But after the debates about the Patriot Act and the detainees in Guantánamo, everyone in the class had heard about the World War II camps, and everyone knew the formerly obscure name of Jeannette Rankin, the Montana representative who had cast the lone vote against the war resolution after Pearl Harbor and who figures in Powers's narrative for that reason. Realizing, then, that everything we said in class about World War II would have sharp resonance for the world after September 11, I mentioned that Powers has been criticized for apparently establishing a kind of moral equivalence between Nazi concentration camps and U.S. internment camps -- since the latter, however outrageous and indefensible they were in a putatively democratic nation, were not part of a program of genocide. I asked the class what they thought of that critique.

John wasn't having any of it. There's no moral equivalence here at all; Powers is out of his mind; and even Powers's critics have gone wrong in implicitly agreeing to parse out the different forms of moral wrong at stake -- because, and let's get this much straight, the internment camps were justified. Far from being "outrageous" and "indefensible," they were a reasonable security precaution in a desperate time and, furthermore, the detainees were treated quite well.

At that point, I have to admit, I was flummoxed. I rarely challenge students directly in the course of class discussion, but I was so stunned that I almost blurted out, "You've got to be kidding." Even if I had, though, I'm not sure John would have heard me: The entire classroom was in a minor uproar, everyone from the pacifists to the drug-law libertarians to the undecideds chiming in at once to criticize; to say, collectively and incoherently, OK, pal, this time you've gone too far. "You know nothing about the Japanese who were imprisoned." "You know nothing about the Constitution." "You're forgetting that the United States actually issued an apology to the internees, as well as financial reparations," students said. For a few seconds, it looked and sounded as if John's classmates wanted to argue him right out of the room.(Yes with the professor we have to silence that rightist, fascist and racist pig)

So, instead of blurting, I whistled. Loud. "All right. Wait a minute." The following silence was punctuated by a few low murmurs. "The object here isn't to pile on," I said over them. "This is, in fact, one of the things the novel wants us to debate."

"But John," I added, turning to him, "I do want to remind you that you spoke up quite forcefully, earlier this semester, on behalf of the belief that we're all Americans first, and that our national and ethnic origins shouldn't matter. Didn't the internment camps violate that principle?"

No, he said, because here we were dealing with the possibility of treason during wartime, and some Japanese-Americans had, indeed, been in touch with relatives in Japan in ways that threatened national security. Fine, I said, I believe you're quite mistaken about that, and I will be happy to direct you to sources that will challenge you, but suffice it to say for now that you reject one of the premises of the novel, somewhat more emphatically than Powers's harshest critics on this score. Now, let's take this to the rest of the class. Does the prisoner's dilemma apply to the second world war in the ways Powers suggests? John here says that the camps were justified. If you disagree with him, how can you frame your disagreement by reference to the terms Powers sets out?

We got through the novel, of course -- we didn't lose any lives, and no one was injured. It was only literary criticism, after all. But the class had been completely derailed. John was confirmed in his isolation and sense of opposition, his classmates took to eye-rolling and head-shaking at his remarks, and, by the time we got in December to Colson Whitehead's 1999 The Intuitionist, a whimsical allegory about racial uplift and the history of elevator inspection, John was complaining that there were no good white characters in the novel. By that point, even I had had enough, and I told him, via e-mail, that his complaint was not only unwarranted on its face but thoroughly beside the point: In this class, I said, we are not in the business of pursuing reductive identity-politics enterprises like looking for "positive images" in literature, regardless of what group images we might be talking about.

When the semester was over, I wondered whether John's story was the stuff of which right-wing legends are made. (The answer is yes) Would he remember the seminar as the class in which his right to free speech and debate was trampled by politically correct groupthink (even though he spoke more often than any other single student)?(Yes, again) He couldn't possibly contend that I'd graded him on the political content of his remarks, because he'd gotten an A for the course. But there was no question that he felt embattled, that he didn't see any contradictions in his argument about the internment camps, and that he had begun to develop an aggressive/defensive "I'm not a racist, but these people . . ." mode of speaking that would someday get him either in serious trouble with some angry hyphenated-Americans or the job Dinesh D'Souza held at the American Enterprise Institute. In the last couple of weeks of the term, I found myself speaking to him almost solicitously, as if to say, "You know, if you understand so little about how some of your remarks might be taken by members of racial minorities, and yet you say so much about them, you could be in for some rough times. You might want to read a manual on tact, perhaps."(Either that or you will suffer the consequences the Kulaks did under Lenin)

But who am I to say such things? For all I know, John might be able to craft a life in which he can deride African-American ambivalence about integration and defend Japanese-American internment camps without ever confronting anyone who disagrees with him.

Reflecting on the course two years later, I've come to see that only a small, intense class can produce the kind of dynamic we dealt with that semester -- where I often felt compelled to restrain students from criticizing someone whose arguments I myself found obnoxious, and where I had to weigh carefully, seven days a week, what things I could say to students in the public space of the classroom, and what things I should reserve for private after-class discussions or follow-up e-mail messages.

And, of course, because of the syllabus, and because of September 11, students wanted to talk after class, on off days, over the weekend, at midnight on e-mail, with a professor who would converse with them on all matters local and global. Few critics of academe -- and even fewer critics of liberal-left professors -- have any idea what kind of work that entails, which is one reason, surely, why headlines like "Conservative Student Punished by Stalinist Campus Orthodoxy" strike those of us who teach as so surreal.

Over my 20 years in teaching, I've had many conservatives in my classes. I think I've even had a few Stalinists, too. I've had many intelligent, articulate students who behaved as if they had a right to speak more often and at greater length than anyone else in the room; I've had versions of Reese Witherspoon in Election and Hermione Granger in the Harry Potter series, who knew the answers to every question ever asked; I've had my share of blurters with very little sense of social boundaries, a few of whom may genuinely have had some degree of Asperger's syndrome, with various autistic or antisocial symptoms. To all such students -- indeed, to all students, those with disabilities and those without -- I try to apply the standard of disability law: I make reasonable accommodation for them. The challenge, though, lies in making reasonable accommodations for students whose standards of "reasonableness" are significantly different from yours. Few aspects of teaching are so difficult -- and, I think, so rarely acknowledged by people who don't teach for a living.(In conclusion you conservatives really suffer from a mental malady and I have done my best to accept you)

Michael Bérubé is a professor of English at Pennsylvania State University at University Park.

http://chronicle.com Section: The Chronicle Review Volume 50, Issue 15, Page B7

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TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: academe; academia; academicbor; conservative; englisheducation; highereducation; horowitz
John is a hero. That he could fight against the natural inclination of a young adult to be accepted at all costs is remarkable. As is the case with most leftist professors this one's major goal was egoistic --to dominate, to be the center of attention and to punish anyone who differed with him. I am always amazed people look for the cause of political belief rather than the goals. This professor's goals are clear --attention, power and revenge. Imagine he already has been given prestige and pay beyond the average person's but he still needs to berate and control those in his classroom who differ politically with him.

PS: The Chronicle of Higher Education is the resource most college professors gravitate to.

1 posted on 12/02/2003 1:01:29 PM PST by shrinkermd
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To: shrinkermd
Good read. It's pretty amazing the Professor could only remember, a few conservatives in his class, along side a few Stalinists. It must mean something in his mind.
2 posted on 12/02/2003 1:32:26 PM PST by MontanaBeth (absolute power, corrupts absolutely)
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To: shrinkermd
I think our lefty professor's biggest problem is probably 90% of the books assigned for his English course were socio-political books that had a "message". The "message" was always invariably, "the down-trodden, poor, minority, and women, and trangendered people, suffering under capitalist White men". I don't think John had a problem with his professor's political views in so much that almost every book assigned during the semester was one that said John's view of the world was completely wrong.

Two other points:

I really wish English Literature courses didn't always assign books that have a "message". There are some really good popular authors like Stephen King, John Grisham, etc. that are actually very talented writers. Students can explore literature without political baggage. In the case above, the professor was (most likely subconsciously) trying to sway his students to his point of view with his book selections.

-and-

Don't you love how the author descirbes his "Stalinist" students as almost an edgy daring person; something the author wishes he was, but couldn't be. Imagine the different treatment that two students would receive by this (probably White) professor if one announced that he was a "Black Nationalist Stalinist" vs. a "White Supremecist National Socialist".
3 posted on 12/02/2003 1:35:35 PM PST by jjm2111
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To: shrinkermd
The professor is a racist, but he is blind to it. He "logically" supports his position, by being in denial of the truth. John called him on it and the only way to deny the truth was to consider John as an inferior person because of his race, his cultural background, and even his appearance. This is bigotry and racism in it's purist form. Shame on the professor, but sadly the universities overflow with these racists. Their comfort level is such that they are not even afraid to hide their racism, but put it into print for all the world to see.
4 posted on 12/02/2003 1:42:59 PM PST by Kirkwood
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To: jjm2111
As someone with a BA in English (and who had Amiri Baraka as a professor for one class), I agree that the point that this professor misses is that all of the books that he mentions are from a leftist perspective. I get the impression that this was a course that dealt with science fiction novels. He should add some Niven or Heinlein to his mix and perhaps Orwell's Animal Farm or 1984.

There are a few points where I do agree with this professor, though. It does sound like this student could use some help with tact and I agree that one can be pretty conservative without experiencing any backlash. I did, after all, manage to get through a class with Amiri Baraka (I often wonder what happened to that nice old man I used to talk to after class -- I'm white, by the way) and expressed pretty conservative views in quite a few classes without retribution. Indeed, my current moral and social issues professor told me that I didn't need to take the final since he was giving me an "A", despite being absolutely pro-life. He was a fantastic professor who showed the pros and cons of each side rather than favoring one over the other.

Does retribution happen? I'm sure it does. But the better professors are willing to at least hear out both sides of a debate and the really good ones will even consider objections to the material being used in class. I was having trouble slogging through Toni Morrison's Sula (none of the characters were likable, in my opinion) and discussed this with my literature professor, a man who was left-of-center enough to be enamoured with liberation theology, and he thought about it and actually gave a pretty good and not entirely politically correct talk on my problems during the next class.

5 posted on 12/02/2003 1:51:11 PM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: shrinkermd
Equating Japanese internment camps (initiated by FDR) and Nazi concentration camps IS outrageous. How many Japanese were murdered in these camps? Where are the gas chambers, the forced labor? Show me a lampshade made from the skin of an interred Japanese. Leftists must rely on hyperbole to find similarities between the atrocities committed by dictatorships and the injustices committed by the Wester democracies.
6 posted on 12/02/2003 1:52:59 PM PST by BadAndy
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To: shrinkermd
Yes, all the books he assigned aren't good examples of 'literature' at all, they are political tracts poorly disguised as sort of fantasy novels. They are boring, boring, boring. John was just bored out of his tree and trying to get some excitement going.

I bet this professor has no idea how to teach The Old Man And The Sea, or El Cid, or The Old Curiosity Shop as literature. I bet he couldn't compare and contrast Pride And Prejudice/All The Pretty Horses if his life depended on it.

I bet he doesn't know narrative summary from a direct scene from Shinola.
7 posted on 12/02/2003 1:55:52 PM PST by squarebarb
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To: BadAndy
Comparing what the US did to the Japanese to what the Nazis did to the Jews and others is an outrageous act of moral equivalency. That said, the argument that the Americans were justified in holding the Japanese in camps is questionable, even by many conservatives. While I don't think John's argument was inherently racist or insensitive (he seemed to make some legitimate points), he should really try to understand why other people may think so. When you express an opinion, you either do so to entertain yourself or to inform others. Simply blowing off frustration to entertain yourself can hurt the conservative cause if it makes others less willling to listen to conservative ideas and informing others does, like it or not, require a certain amount of tact.
8 posted on 12/02/2003 1:57:47 PM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: squarebarb
My guess was that this was a science fiction class, since he mentions the students ability to discuss science fiction and in my experience, most literature professors would rather gnaw off their right arm that talk about science fiction. But there are certainly conservative (and simply disturbing) science fiction novels out there that don't come from a leftist perspective. Of course I can imagine the title of the coarse being something like "Social Commentary in Science Fiction" or some such.
9 posted on 12/02/2003 2:01:17 PM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: Question_Assumptions
I agree that the internment camps were an injustice, although recent docuuments show that there were Japanese Americans who were sending info to Japan about the arrival and departures of military ships. That does not justify imprisoning an entire community. I think I would have reacted the same as John to the comparison made by Powers. A nazi concentration camp is NOT a POW camp. If the intended comparison was an internment camp and a POW camp, you can have a reasonable discussion. I am surprized that the teacher did not recognize that John's reaction was a response to the use of an inappropriate and inflammatory word.
10 posted on 12/02/2003 2:14:11 PM PST by BadAndy
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To: shrinkermd
A few final points...

I replied by telling John something like this: "Your position has a long and distinguished history in debates over immigration and national identity. It's part of the current critique of multiculturalism, of course, and to a point I have some sympathy with it, because I don't think that social contracts should be based on cultural homogeneity." Deep breath.

Actually, I think you'll find that few social contracts work without it. One need only look at nations that consist of tribal cultures to spot many of the more entrenched trouble spots on the planet.

"That said," I went on, "I have to point out that the terms under which people of African descent might be accepted as Americans, in 1820 or 1920 or whenever, have been radically different from the terms under which your ancestors, whoever they were, could be accepted as Americans.

I think this professor has no clue about how either group was accepted as Americans historically. First, the association between skin color and class developed as a side-effect of (A) slavery and (B) out-of-control Darwinism. Second, many whites immigrants were not immediately accepted as Americans including Southern Europeans, Eastern Europeans, and the Irish.

Being accepted as Americans requires one to insist on being an American. When my grandfather came here from Scotland, he told my uncles (born in Scotland) that they were in American now and should be Americans. And when George Forman waved the American flag in the 1968 Olympics, he sent a very different message than the black athletes that raised their fists instead.

You're right to insist that you shouldn't be defined by one's ancestry, but, unfortunately, most African-Americans -- who, by the way, fought and died for integration for many generations -- didn't have that option.

And now they fight for segregation, which certainly isn't going to help. Yes, racisms is real. But so was the discrimination aimed at a lot of whites. People underestimate just how seperate different European groups were until after World War 2. This professor should also look into the hardships endured by Asian immigrants, which included lynch mobs, murders, and very strict immigration policies.

And it shouldn't be all that surprising that, when African-Americans finally did have the option of integrating into the larger national community, some of them were profoundly ambivalent about the prospect."

And that is their lost. There is no advantage in being alienated except that you get to blame everyone else for your failures.

11 posted on 12/02/2003 2:16:32 PM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: shrinkermd
read later
12 posted on 12/02/2003 2:19:31 PM PST by LiteKeeper
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To: Question_Assumptions
I certainly agree that the kid could have been being argumentative at times for argument's sake. I had plenty of liberal professors who did not penalize anyone for their conservative viewpoints.

So many of the books I had to read in all my English literature throughout high school and college were truly awful. I wouldn't have purchased any but a couple dozen or so with my own money.
13 posted on 12/02/2003 2:20:07 PM PST by jjm2111
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To: BadAndy
"Equating Japanese internment camps (initiated by FDR) and Nazi concentration camps IS outrageous."

Of course it is, but since the people referred to here were Americans of Japanese descent, instead of making the all too common comparisons to the Nazis and the Jews, why not take a closer look at the war's better-kept nasty secret? I'm talking about how the Japanese treated the people unfortunate enough to be in one of their camps. The Japanese could have given the Germans lessons in cruel treatment of prisoners.
14 posted on 12/02/2003 2:20:40 PM PST by beelzepug ("As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly!!!")
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To: shrinkermd
Bizarre.

But I don't believe that universities should be in the business of ensuring their students' comfort in such matters.

Oh yeah? They seem pretty intent upon ensuring the comfort of gays, feminists, Blacks, and Latinos.

15 posted on 12/02/2003 2:23:28 PM PST by wizardoz ("They're not Americans; they're Democrats." -NetValue)
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To: Question_Assumptions
Actually, there's a book called They Were White and They Were Slaves that talks about thousands of whites brought over from England and Ireland and sold as slaves in the 1600s. They were convicts, or homeless, or beggars, and they were deported, arrived in chains, sold on an auction block as servants/slaves, often for LIFE, and if they bore children, those children were born into servitude till the age of 16, or 18, or 30, depending on which part of the colony they were in.
16 posted on 12/02/2003 2:33:55 PM PST by wizardoz ("They're not Americans; they're Democrats." -NetValue)
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To: jjm2111
My point is that all this discussion with John, all his points to be made are sociopolitical ones. I thought he was teaching some sort of a literature class.

This is why younger reviewers don't know how to review books --- they don't have a basic knowledge of literary criticism, all they have been taught is to view everything through the lens of politics.

And I wish he would have taught Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep and Riddley Walker.

Also, the only reason the books above mentioned are still in print is because professors require classes to read them and pay for them.
17 posted on 12/02/2003 2:49:37 PM PST by squarebarb
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To: wizardoz
In my college colonial history course, the professor discussed how the earliest records show white landowners and black landowners siding together against white slaves or servants and black slaves or servants. What made slavery a "black thing" was the vast number of black slaves that started to come over and a shift in their status towards perminent slavery that made it more difficult to gain their freedom. That shifted attitudes towards blacks and slavery. But also don't underestimate the effects that the Darwinian social order had on racial views. The last dark-skinned Tasmanian was stuffed and put in a museum as a "missing link". Evolution put a whole "more advanced"/"less advanced" spin on race that had only been cultural before.
18 posted on 12/02/2003 3:09:01 PM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: shrinkermd
"This professor's goals are clear --attention, power and revenge."
.......any white kid who takes a class from a prof like Berube is just asking for a dose of indoctrination......it's all about hating whitey.......and now it's not just African-Americans either......notice how many third world profs are in the academy these days teaching "post-colonial"
studies.....think:blame the anglo-european for everything.
19 posted on 12/02/2003 4:36:48 PM PST by STONEWALLS
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To: shrinkermd
I've often wished we leftists had less of a presence in literature departments and more of a presence in state legislatures. (Perhaps it's not too late to engineer a straight-up swap.)

The presence of nonleftists in state legislatures has to do with votes and the wishes of the electorate. Universities are accountable to NO ONE. If conservative alumni would talk about the liberal bias to the fundraising callers who ask for contributions, there might be more accountability.

20 posted on 12/02/2003 6:52:55 PM PST by jwalburg (You're not moderate just because you know leftier leftists than yourself)
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