Californians Launch New Prop. 187 Measure (denying some social services to illegal immigrants)

Yahoo News ^ | 12/20/03 | ROBERT JABLON

[Libloather]

Californians Launch New Prop. 187 Measure
16 minutes ago
By ROBERT JABLON, Associated Press Writer

LOS ANGELES - Backers of a contentious 1994 initiative denying some social services to illegal immigrants have resurrected their effort and are gathering signatures to qualify a new measure for the November ballot.

The "Save Our State Initiative" would bar undocumented immigrants from obtaining driver's licenses and most public services, including non-emergency health care.

Police, teachers and other public employees would have to notify federal authorities in writing of immigration violations or face potential misdemeanor criminal charges.

"We don't think it's right to give welfare to illegal aliens," campaign organizer Ron Prince said Saturday. "If you don't do something about illegal immigration, you will never cure your deficit."

The campaign has collected hundreds of signatures and several thousand dollars since it began less than two weeks ago, Prince said. Backers need 500,900 valid signatures by April to put the measure on the November ballot.

The measure is similar to 1994's Proposition 187, which was approved by 60 percent of voters but never took effect because of court challenges.

This time supporters have designed the measure so it can survive legal challenges, Prince said. One difference is that the new proposal would allow illegal immigrants to attend public school.

The Proposition 187 campaign angered many Hispanic groups, who accused its supporters of racism.

Nativo Lopez, president of the Mexican American Political Association and national director of the immigrant rights group Hermandad Mexicana Latinoamericana, called the new effort "symptomatic of the worst of what we saw of the 1990s anti-immigrant movement."

"It's going to be back to divisive politics for California," Lopez said. But he added that Proposition 187 has galvanized Hispanics politically, and that about 2 million immigrants have become citizens and registered voters in the state since the 1994 vote.

Prince, a Tustin accountant, said the issue was never race and that many Hispanics favor curbing services to illegal immigrants.

"Who really hurts most from illegals?" he said. "The people who live in East L.A. who ... compete for lower wages and jobs, and whose children have to attend crowded schools."

Prince said Proposition 187 supporters were encouraged by the Oct. 7 recall of Gov. Gray Davis, fueled in part by anger over a bill he signed that would have permitted some illegal immigrants to obtain driver's licenses.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger repealed the law after taking office. He voted for Proposition 187 but has not taken a position on the proposed new initiative.

The state Republican Party also endorsed Proposition 187, but no major GOP organization has yet endorsed the new campaign.

Backers say the new initiative is necessary because providing services to illegals is costing cash-strapped California millions of dollars.

A summary of the measure prepared by the attorney general's office says it could cost the government tens of millions of dollars to verify citizenship but could save more than $100 million a year through reduced costs of providing public services.

Prince disputes some studies that indicate illegal immigrants pay more in taxes than they use in government services.

"If that were true, California would be awash in extra cash instead of having the worst deficit in the nation and in our history," he said.

On the Net:
"Save Our State" initiative: http://www.save187.com/

[So Cal Rocket]

http://www.save187.com/


Download the petition, sign it, have your friends and neighbors sign it, and mail it in!

[JimVT]

The Proposition 187 campaign angered many Hispanic groups, who accused its supporters of racism.

Yeah......it's always "racism" when us poor gringos want to see our tax dollars spent wisely and not on some freakin' giveaway to lazy wastrel aliens.

Tell it Vincente, amigo!

[Duramaximus]

"Prince disputes some studies that indicate illegal immigrants pay more in taxes than they use in government services."

Some studies? I am skeptical of any study that suggests that illegal immigrants pay more in taxes than they use in government services.

I downloaded the petition, and I should have quite a few full of signatures by the end of the holidays.

This free-ride nonsense for illegal aliens has to stop.

I, for one, am tired of paying for it!

[A CA Guy]

The whole problem with allowing illegals to attend public school is that is a cost BILLIONS a year here in CA.
The teacher's union loves it because it grows jobs and power for them.

Maybe it should be legal for them to attend a public school, but my issue is the funding.

I was told by a teacher in Santa Ana CA that they are collecting $450 a day per child. I think over 90% of those are probably illegals at this time.
If it is $450 a day, the school year pays education $2,250 a week, why that much?

Can't we limit the funding of illegal attendees to $100 a week, no diploma and a nice public school tent city here and there?

Do they HAVE a right to equal education with taxpayer money Federally? Why does CA get forced into paying equal dollars to fund them as we do our citizen kids?

Where is this new proposition cutting the cost of ILLEGALS in a public school education?

[Amerigomag]

I've signed but good luck in November.

George Bush will reach out and throw everything he's got against this legislation.

We are going to be battered by both the left and the Republican establishment.

[lainde]

Here's the problem with the "nonemergency medical care". The way it works in reality is illegal presents at the county ER with a set of symptoms. Busy ER doctor is the one who would have to put his name on a document saying it's NOT an emergency. From a litigation point of view he simply doesn't KNOW, sight unseen, if it's an emergency or not. So all patients HAVE TO BE SEEN so he/she can figure it out. And the game goes on. The problem is NOT going to be solved on the backs of the doctors already being mauled by the litigation sharks. We are not immigration officials or insurance agents. The problem will have to be solved at the federal level. If "America" lets them cross the borders to get dialysis, chemotherapy, transplants, have babies or become ill, the doctor is NOT the designated gatekeeper. We just take care of sick people. I don't want to have to put political chaos into the mix when I'm trying to evaluate chest pain...We're not the border patrol. America is not yet willing to solve or even honestly address the problem.

[texastoo]

You have your work cut out for you. Hopefully, again, California will lead they way for the rest of the nation.

You have already shown George Bush that you are not taking it sitting down, not just once, but twice (prop 187 and the drivers license). His pandering will probably backfire just like Grey Davis' pandering did him in. Now, he and Rove will have to lick that finger and stick it in the wind. I love this since it is coming before he meets with Fox in January.

Dubya knows the whole nation is against the pandering to illegals and will do nothing about it. Illegal immigration is tearing almost all laws on the book apart.

[Blue Collar Christian]

"We are going to be battered by both the left and the Republican establichment."

I'm beginning to think that is a redundant statement.

[texastoo]

Actually, doctors don't decide. All the doctors do is present the signs, symptom, treatment and diagnosis. Then comes the caseworker. They tell the doctor how long the patient can stay in a hospital and also determine who wil pay.

The job of a case worker is to move em in and move em out, get along rawhide. This makes big bucks for a hospital. Of course, the case worker is paid for by the hospital. They know the emergency medicaid laws by heart. Every ER has case workers.

It doesn't take much to tell the difference in a snotty nose and chest pain. You know and I know that chest pain is faked many times for a free meal and sympathy especially around Christmas.

[SierraWasp]

"We are going to be battered by both the left and the Republican establishment."

So what! He didn't support the Recall, either!! Hardly anyone did, except the people and only one gubernatorial candidate, originally. I'm not talking about Issa, either.

[Amerigomag]

I'm beginning to think that is a redundant statement.

You bet. If this thing makes to the ballot in November Bush will be like an unwanted second in the fight that follows. Quietly addressing our wounds between rounds but when the fight is on and we're trapped in the corner, swinging away at our opponent with all we've got, he'll be reaching up into the ring, trying to nick our Achilles tendon with a box cutter and jabbing at our kidneys with a broom stick.

[ETERNAL WARMING]

Some studies? I am skeptical of any study that suggests that illegal immigrants pay more in taxes than they use in government services.

According to Fair.org, less than 6% pay any taxes at all and 25% collect some form of public assistance!

[ETERNAL WARMING]

Some studies? I am skeptical of any study that suggests that illegal immigrants pay more in taxes than they use in government services.

According to Fair.org, less than 6% pay any taxes at all and 25% collect some form of public assistance! They also displace 730,000 US workers per year. As if that wasn't enough, 25%-28% of the prison population are illegal aliens who have committed crimes against American citizens. I'm tired of paying taxes to support them. I'm tired of subsidizing employers who hire these people to maximize THEIR PROFIT!

[ETERNAL WARMING]

While we're at it, reach out and touch the Whitehouse and your Homeboys:

WH comment line: toll free 202-456-6213 or 202-456-1414

Senate and House Reps: 1-800-648-3516

Republican Nat'l Committee: NOT toll free: 202-863-8500

[mansion]

Maybe we could let them attend public schools, but send their parents a bill.

Then, after every semester, we could total up how much has gone unpaid, and have a concrete number of how much education for illegals is costing us. We already have a ballpark figure for how much their healthcare costs us, I believe...

[SierraWasp]

"America is not yet willing to solve or even honestly address the problem."

What's that supposed to mean? Single payer? And how come I keep noticing E.R. Doctors registering as Repellicans and running for office against rock solid conservatives? Every E.R. Doctor I've encountered recently is a liberal statist at heart. Why is that?

Why can't they do their civic duty as citizens without being immigration officials or insurance agents? The rest of us are busy and are threatened with litigation sharks, too! The rest of us professionals consider our work crucial, too.

I hate all the WOD and Patriot Act anti-money laundering regulatory rigamarole and prying paperwork I have to do under government mandates just as much as you overburdened E.R. Doctors hate having one of your assistants check out citizenship and insurance stuff.

Kwitcherbellyachin!!!

[ETERNAL WARMING]

Do they HAVE a right to equal education with taxpayer money Federally?

THey should have NO rights at all! They're ILLEGAL so why are we forced to pay for their free ride? Less than 6% pay any taxes. Let their employers pony up! They want cheap labor, let them support them as well.

[mansion]

This time supporters have designed the measure so it can survive legal challenges, Prince said.

I can see several reasons that won't matter:

First, an appeal would probably go to the 9th Circuit, who have a known history of ignoring the laws flagrantly

Second: why bother, when our HOMELAND SECURITY secretary, and even our president (allegedly, the chief law enforcement officer of the country), are considering amnesty for illegals?

[A CA Guy]

Many form businesses at things like gardening as their own boss.
Many are day to day labor.

I wanted to know what it was that made us keeping them out of public school ILLEGAL, when it should be ILLEGAL to have ILLEGALS in school.