Lando 
Posted on 02/06/2004 10:59:33 AM PST by jmstein7
COKIE ROBERTS: Senator John Kerry, Democrat from Massachusetts, joining us today from Idaho. Senator John McCain, Republican from Arizona, and he's in Arizona.
Welcome, gentlemen. Thank you for being with us this morning.
Sen. JOHN MCCAIN, (R-AZ)Armed Services Cmte.: Thank you.
COKIE ROBERTS: Now, what -- we've got this report that Kofi Annan is close to an agreement.
Senator McCain, is that something you welcome?
Sen. JOHN MCCAIN: Well, I would welcome if it means full compliance, but very frankly, I'm very nervous, and I'm a little more nervous after listening to the secretary of state talking about how UNSCOM will decide and that the secretary-general thinks he can sell this to the Security Council.
Frankly, this gives credence to many friends of mine who believe that the United States may be subordinating its -- its power to the United Nations.
It's not UNSCOM's young people that are -- lives are on the line, and it's not the Security Council's. It's whether the United States government and Congress, hopefully, along with the president, decide that Saddam Hussein is ready to comply and stop this acquisition of weapons of mass destruction -- not the Security Council and not UNSCOM.
And I'm very nervous about it. I hope that it's not a scenario where it's about 95 percent of what we want, and then a few days or weeks later, Saddam Hussein decides to reverse his course again.
COKIE ROBERTS: Senator Kerry, you were nodding there.
Sen. JOHN KERRY, (D-MA) Foreign Relations Cmte. : Well, I'm profoundly concerned, and I share John's skepticism. I think one of the great lessons that John and I both learned in the war that we fought in is that if you're going to commit America's young into harm's way, you want to make certain that you're going to achieve the goal and the country is prepared to go the distance.
I think there is a disconnect between the depth of the threat that Saddam Hussein presents to the world and what we are at the moment talking about doing. If indeed he is as significant a threat, as you heard him characterized by the president [Clinton], the secretary of state, the secretary of defense -- can threaten London, threaten the peace of the Middle East, that he is really a war criminal who is already at war with the civilized world -- then we have to be prepared to go the full distance, which is to do everything possible to disrupt his regime and to encourage the forces of democracy.
COKIE ROBERTS: And does that mean ground troops in Iraq?
Sen. JOHN KERRY: I am personally prepared, if that's what it meant. I don't think you have to start there. I think there are a number of other options. But
What I hear from the administration, thus far, is if he doesn't comply, then we will hit him.
The obvious question is, after you've hit him, have you opened up your inspections?
Well, I think the answer is probably not, certainly not in the near term. After you've hit him, is he still in power, capable of building weapons again? Every bit of intelligence John and I have says within various periods of time, he can rebuild both chemical and biological. And every indication is, because of his deception and duplicity in the past, he will seek to do that. So we will not eliminate the problem for ourselves or for the rest of the world with a bombing attack.
GEORGE WILL: Senator McCain, let's go back to the question whether or not American policy is de facto now hostage to the UN.
If the secretary-general comes back and says, I'm pleased with this, and he's speaking for the UN, and our rationale all along has been the integrity of the UN mandate, is it politically feasible for us to proceed with force.
Sen. JOHN MCCAIN: Oh, I think it's extremely difficult, George. You've already seen the divisions within the country. We shouldn't have set up this scenario that the secretary-general of the United Nations is making those decisions, de facto, as you see.
I guess it's an improvement over the foreign minister of Russia, who dictated the last one.
But reality is that if the secretary-general comes back and says, this is a good agreement and one that we can live with, and it's not one that we can live with, it makes it much, much more difficult, to say the least. That's obvious.
And one other comment. I agree with John. One of the reasons why the American people are skeptical, as both of us are, there has to be a long-term program to overthrow Saddam Hussein and get rid of him. And I'd start with setting up an organization within and outside of Iraq to do that.
GEORGE WILL: Senator Kerry, given the fact that we say, on the one hand, he's like Hitler -- the most evil man since Hitler, the secretary of state said this week -- yet he's not worth fighting for on the ground, fighting against on the ground, is it perhaps time for the United States to quit obsessing about him, say this is a problem we can't solve, and think about other things?
Sen. JOHN KERRY: Well, first of all, George, I don't believe it's not worth fighting for on the ground. And I think that's your last position, and there are many things you can do. And I'm quite confident you can make his life sufficiently miserable and deprive him of the ability to survive without necessarily having to reach that level. But I'm prepared to go to the level.
And the reason is very simple believe he is the kind of threat that has been described. I believe that in the post- Cold War period this issue of proliferation, particularly in the hands of Saddam Hussein, is critical. It has implications for a Qaddafi, for a Sudan, for other countries in the world in the future.
GEORGE WILL: Senator Kerry, you're way ahead of the commander in chief in this regard.
Sen. JOHN KERRY: I am way ahead of the commander in chief, and I'm probably way ahead of my colleagues and certainly of much of the country. But I believe this.
I believe that he has used these weapons before. He has invaded another country. He views himself as a modern-day Nebuchadnezzar. He wants to continue to play the uniting critical role in that part of the world. And I think we have to stand up to that.
SAM DONALDSON: Senator, on the point of your colleagues, let's talk about what may happen in Congress this coming week. Senator Lott said on Friday that he might bring up that resolution that's been brewing in the Senate on Thursday or maybe a week from Tuesday.
Senator McCain, do you think it would be a good idea to bring up a resolution of support, and if so, would it pass?
Sen. JOHN MCCAIN: First of all, we must support the young men and women at a minimum. Second of all, I believe that if that resolution says that there would be a commitment to eventually overthrowing Saddam Hussein, than I think that we could probably get it done.
But you've got to remember that this administration has lost great credibility by coming over and saying they're going to be out of Bosnia twice by a certain date -- they knowing they're not telling the truth and we knowing they weren't telling the truth -- by hyping the peace in the Middle East and Northern Ireland. Haiti is starting to go downhill.
This administration's foreign policy, which has been largely conducted without consulting or involving Congress, has lost great credibility, and the chickens are coming home to roost.
SAM DONALDSON: Well, Senator Kerry, what about the question to you? Should the resolution be brought up? Will it pass?
Sen. JOHN KERRY: Well, I think John is correct. I think that if there is an end game contained within it and a clarification to the members of Congress about the road we will proceed afterwards, yes, I think it would pass under those circumstances.
COKIE ROBERTS: But the road we would proceed afterwards your both saying would have to involve the overthrow of Saddam Hussein in some fashion, which is not something we've been terribly good at as a country other than through military action.
Sen. JOHN KERRY: I think the important thing, Cokie, is, is that we are committed to undertake a long-term policy. There's no guarantee ever in life. But there is one guarantee. If we do nothing, I promise you we will face this issue one way or the other again in the Gulf or with respect to Israel or in some form. And I think it is absolutely vital for us to recognize the enormous principle with respect to proliferation and the challenge that this represents in the long term for our country.
If we don't face this today, we will face it at some point down the road.
COKIE ROBERTS: Senator McCain, we need to move on now. But I'll let you have a final word.
Sen. JOHN MCCAIN: I believe that we should support the president. I believe that there has got to be a coherent foreign policy. I believe the president has to talk directly to the American people, and tell them that Americans will die and civilians will die and this is a tough business.
I certainly hope that we can reach a diplomatic solution, but I am not as optimistic as some.
COKIE ROBERTS: All right. Thank you very much, Senator John McCain, Senator John Kerry.
Sen. JOHN KERRY: Well, first of all, George, I don't believe it's not worth fighting for on the ground. And I think that's your last position, and there are many things you can do. And I'm quite confident you can make his life sufficiently miserable and deprive him of the ability to survive without necessarily having to reach that level. But I'm prepared to go to the level.
And the reason is very simple believe he is the kind of threat that has been described. I believe that in the post- Cold War period this issue of proliferation, particularly in the hands of Saddam Hussein, is critical. It has implications for a Qaddafi, for a Sudan, for other countries in the world in the future.
GEORGE WILL: Senator Kerry, you're way ahead of the commander in chief in this regard.
Sen. JOHN KERRY: I am way ahead of the commander in chief, and I'm probably way ahead of my colleagues and certainly of much of the country. But I believe this.
I believe that he has used these weapons before. He has invaded another country. He views himself as a modern-day Nebuchadnezzar. He wants to continue to play the uniting critical role in that part of the world. And I think we have to stand up to that.
Lando
"For toast, I'd like Kerry...burnt"
A creepy, crawly who changes his words depending on who he's talking to at the time.
Unfortunately, he's an excellent orator and you walk away with "what you want to hear" from his talk.
I think there is a disconnect between the depth of the threat that Saddam Hussein presents to the world and what we are at the moment talking about doing. If indeed he is as significant a threat, as you heard him characterized by the president [Clinton], the secretary of state, the secretary of defense -- can threaten London, threaten the peace of the Middle East, that he is really a war criminal who is already at war with the civilized world -- then we have to be prepared to go the full distance, which is to do everything possible to disrupt his regime and to encourage the forces of democracy.
COKIE ROBERTS: And does that mean ground troops in Iraq?
Sen. JOHN KERRY: I am personally prepared, if that's what it meant. I don't think you have to start there. I think there are a number of other options. But. What I hear from the administration, thus far, is if he doesn't comply, then we will hit him.The obvious question is, after you've hit him, have you opened up your inspections?
Well, I think the answer is probably not, certainly not in the near term. After you've hit him, is he still in power, capable of building weapons again? Every bit of intelligence John and I have says within various periods of time, he can rebuild both chemical and biological. And every indication is, because of his deception and duplicity in the past, he will seek to do that. So we will not eliminate the problem for ourselves or for the rest of the world with a bombing attack.
Sen. JOHN KERRY: I am personally prepared, if that's what it meant. I don't think you have to start there. I think there are a number of other options. But what I hear from the administration, thus far, is if he doesn't comply, then we will hit him. The obvious question is, after you've hit him, have you opened up your inspections? Well, I think the answer is probably not, certainly not in the near term. After you've hit him, is he still in power, capable of building weapons again? Every bit of intelligence John and I have says within various periods of time, he can rebuild both chemical and biological. And every indication is, because of his deception and duplicity in the past, he will seek to do that. So we will not eliminate the problem for ourselves or for the rest of the world with a bombing attack.His owns words will doom him.
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