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Science Backs Up Humanity of the Unborn

Posted on 05/31/2004 5:10:32 PM PDT by Coleus

Science Backs Up Humanity of the Unborn

Dr. Carlo Bellieni Tells of Prenatal Suffering and Development

ROME, MAY 14, 2004 (Zenit) - The verifiable suffering of the human fetus poses serious reflections for doctors and researchers, and proves it is unscientific to treat "prenatal life as second-class," says a noted Italian neonatologist.

Dr. Carlo Bellieni, in his book "Dawn of the I: Pain, Memory, Desire, Dream of the Fetus," published by SEF, addresses questions such as: What does a fetus experience? What are its rights? Is artificial insemination really harmless?

Bellieni has spent years studying the suffering of the fetus and the newborn, as part of his work in the Department of Neonatal Intensive Therapy of the Le Scotte University Polyclinic of Siena. He speaks about his work below.

Q: Does the fetus feel pain?

Bellieni: Indeed. Modern neonatologists have the privilege of caring precisely for fetuses. We have them in our hands. Sometimes they have the weight of an apple; some are slightly longer than a hand.

They have been born prematurely and they will have to stay for months in sophisticated incubators, cared for and controlled 24 hours a day with high-technology instruments.

And no one who is caring for them doubts that they are our patients, that they are persons. Sometimes they are so small, that our efforts are useless. They die. And only we can, together with the parents, baptize them.

And all show an unexpected vitality because of their age and dimensions. Today, we know that the fetus inside the maternal womb perceives scents and tastes, hears sounds, and remembers them after birth.

Of course, we know that the fetus, at 30 weeks of gestation, is able to dream. All these characteristics allow us to appreciate the human dimensions. In recent years, this patient has been the object of research to guarantee its health from the maternal uterus.

Q: Can you give us some examples to illustrate your saying that the fetus is a person?

Bellieni: As soon as it is born, the child shows in a scientifically demonstrable way that it recognizes its mother's voice and distinguishes it from that of a stranger. Where has he learned that voice other than in the maternal womb?

There are also direct proofs. For example, we register how the movements and cardiac frequency of the fetus vary if we transmit unexpected sounds through the uterine wall. And we see that at first the fetus is startled, then it gets used to it, just like we do when we hear something that does not interest us.

In fact, the scientific evidence is immense. We cannot understand how it can be thought that it becomes a person at a certain point, perhaps when coming out of the uterus.

From the physical point of view, at the birth very little really changes: Air enters the lungs, the arrival of blood from the placenta is interrupted, the type of circulation of blood in the heart changes, and not much more.

As I often say, only blind faith in magic arts or some strange divinity can lead one to think that there is a "human" quality leap at a given moment -- certainly not science.

Q: Therefore, the affirmation that human life begins at birth is less scientific than that which holds that it is linked to the moment of conception.

Bellieni: Undoubtedly! When the genetic heritage of the ovule is joined with the spermatozoid, a process begins which is unique and unrepeatable precisely because no one in the world has a DNA that is the same as that of that little fertilized cell. Not even the parents.

Therefore, it is absurd to say that the fetus is the property of the mother or the father.

A few days ago I was talking to high school girls and I said to them: "If you return home today and your father tells you to do something because you are 'his,' because you are 'one of his rights,' what do you think? That your father is not feeling well. Well, at present, they are teaching you this: that the child is a right of the parents, a 'choice' of the parents."

Q: Is it not so?

Bellieni: Precisely by studying the premature child, the fetus, one sees that human dignity is not acquired with age, or with birth, or weight; otherwise, only the handsome, rich, and powerful would be human.

Respect for these very frail little children is immediate and teaches us that their value -- our value -- does not depend on contingent things. It depends only on being, and forming part of that level of nature called humanity.

It is easy, to be able to act on somebody, to take away his status as person, but we mustn't allow it.

Q: But with artificial insemination many families seem to become peaceful by having such a child.

Bellieni: We can wish for these parents all possible satisfactions. In any case, we must not forget that in vitro fertilization makes the survival of many embryos debatable.

Nor must we forget that the risks are not that few. In vitro fertilization can cause problems for the mother. A beautiful book came out in 2001 of a French woman journalist of "France 2" entitled, "A Child, But Not at All Costs," in which she explains the psychiatric risks of these practices.

But suffice it to read the scientific literature. It is surprising how much it is ignored.

In vitro fertilization entails the risk of multiple births and of prematureness. And these are risks for the health of the unborn child. Other works also, published in 2002, show that these risks exist even if only one embryo is implanted.

Q: What can be said, by way of conclusion?

Bellieni: That there are paradoxes. So much so that abroad things are going another way. In France there is a "Defender of Children, elected by Parliament," Claire Brisset, a famous journalist.

In the interest of children conceived this way, she has called for a moratorium on the fertilization technique called "ICSI," which introduces all the spermatozoid in the ovule with a minuscule needle.

Q: Can you explain what paradox you are referring to?

Bellieni: In the first place, the fact that we all remember: the prohibition to eat bovine meat out of fear of spongiform encephalitis [mad cow disease]. And how many cases there have been of culpable people. However, the health authorities have adopted precautionary criteria with reason.

In regard to these fertilization practices, we know what the risks are for the health of the one conceived and of the woman. Is it right to take those risks? Is it right to make one's children take those risks? Or is a prudent attitude more correct?

Moreover, I think one should say "enough" to that anti-scientific attitude that regards prenatal life as a second-class life. And the paradox is that instead the Church is accused of retarding progress. In reality, the Church has an attitude of protection of health.

I would like to remind that in vitro fertilization was invented by a priest, Abbot Lazzaro Spallanzani, 300 years ago. He united in vitro the semen and ovule of a frog and obtained tadpoles. He used dog sperm to artificially fertilize a female dog. He was a precursor. He was a scientist. He knew what could be done to an animal, and what can be done, on the other hand, to man.

Fetal Psychology

Behaviorally speaking, there's little difference between a newborn baby and a 32-week-old fetus. A new wave of research suggest that the fetus can feel, dream, even enjoy The Cat in the Hat. The abortion debate may never be the same.

The scene never fails to give goose bumps: the baby, just seconds old and still dewy from the womb, is lifted into the arms of its exhausted but blissful parents. They gaze adoringly as their new child stretches and squirms, scrunches its mouth and opens its eyes. To anyone watching this tender vignette, the message is unmistakable. Birth is the beginning of it all, ground zero, the moment from which the clock starts ticking.

Not so, declares Janet DiPietro. Birth may be a grand occasion, says the Johns Hopkins University psychologist, but "it is a trivial event in development. Nothing neurologically interesting happens."

Armed with highly sensitive and sophisticated monitoring gear, DiPietro and other researchers today are discovering that the real action starts weeks earlier. At 32 weeks of gestation--two months before a baby is considered fully prepared for the world, or "at term" --a fetus is behaving almost exactly as a newborn. And it continues to do so for the next 12 weeks.

As if overturning the common conception of infancy weren't enough, scientists are creating a startling new picture of intelligent life in the womb. Among the revelations:

o By nine weeks, a developing fetus can hiccup and react to loud noises. By the end of the second trimester it can hear.

o Just as adults do, the fetus experiences the rapid eye movement (REM) sleep of dreams.

o The fetus savors its mother's meals, first picking up the food tastes of a culture in the womb.

o Among other mental feats, the fetus can distinguish between the voice of Mom and that of a stranger, and respond to a familiar story read to it.

o Even a premature baby is aware, feels, responds, and adapts to its environment.

o Just because the fetus is responsive to certain stimuli doesn't mean that it should be the target of efforts to enhance development. Sensory stimulation of the fetus can in fact lead to bizarre patterns of adaptation later on.

The roots of human behavior, researchers now know, begin to develop early--just weeks after conception, in fact. Well before a woman typically knows she is pregnant, her embryo's brain has already begun to bulge. By five weeks, the organ that looks like a lumpy inchworm has already embarked on the most spectacular feat of human development: the creation of the deeply creased and convoluted cerebral cortex, the part of the brain that will eventually allow the growing person to move, think, speak, plan, and create in a human way.

At nine weeks, the embryo's ballooning brain allows it to bend its body, hiccup, and react to loud sounds. At week ten, it moves its arms, "breathes" amniotic fluid in and out, opens its jaw, and stretches. Before the first trimester is over, it yawns, sucks, :and swallows as well as feels and smells. By the end of the second trimester, it can hear; toward the end of pregnancy, it can see.

FETAL ALERTNESS

Scientists who follow the fetus' daily life find that it spends most of its time not exercising these new abilities but sleeping. At 32 weeks, it drowses 90 to 95% of the day. Some of these hours are spent in deep sleep, some in REM sleep, and some in an indeterminate state, a product of the fetus' immature brain that is different from sleep in a baby, child, or adult. During REM sleep, the fetus' eyes move back and forth just as an adult's eyes do, and many researchers believe that it is dreaming. DiPietro speculates that fetuses dream about what they know--the sensations they feel in the womb.

Closer to birth, the fetus sleeps 85 or 90% of the time the same as a newborn. Between its frequent naps, the fetus seems to have "something like an awake alert period,' according to developmental psychologist William Filer, Ph.D., who with his Columbia University colleagues is monitoring these sleep and wakefulness cycles in order to identify patterns of normal and abnormal brain development, including potential predictors of sudden infant death syndrome. Says Filer, "We are, in effect, asking the fetus: 'Are you paying attention? Is your nervous system behaving in the appropriate way?"

FETAL MOVEMENT

Awake or asleep, the human fetus moves 50 times or more each hour, flexing and extending its body, moving its head, face, and limbs and exploring its warm wet compartment by touch. Heidelise Als, Ph.D., a developmental psychologist at Harvard Medical School, is fascinated by the amount of tactile stimulation a fetus gives itself. "It touches a hand to the face, one hand to the other hand, clasps its feet, touches its foot to its leg, its hand to its umbilical cord," she reports.

Als believes there is a mismatch between the environment given to preemies in hospitals and the environment they would have had in the womb. She has been working for years to change the care given to preemies so that they can curl up, bring their knees together, and touch things with their hands as they would have for weeks in the womb.

Along with such common movements, DiPietro has also noted some odder fetal activities, including "licking the uterine wall and literally walking around the womb by pushing off with its feet." Laterborns may have more room in the womb for such maneuvers than first babies. After the initial pregnancy, a woman's uterus is bigger and the umbilical cord longer, allowing more freedom of movement. "Second and subsequent children may develop more motor experience in utero and so may become more active infants," DiPietro speculates.

Fetuses react sharply to their mother's actions. "When we're watching the fetus on ultrasound and the mother starts to laugh, we can see the fetus, floating upside down in the womb, bounce up and down on its head, bum-bum-bum, like it's bouncing on a trampoline," says DiPietro. "When mothers watch this on the screen, they laugh harder, and the fetus goes up and down even faster. We've wondered whether this is why people grow up liking roller coasters."

FETAL TASTE

Why people grow up liking hot chilies or spicy curries may also have something to do with the fetal environment. By 13 to 15 weeks a fetus' taste buds already look like a mature adult's, and doctors know that the amniotic fluid that surrounds it can smell strongly of curry, cumin, garlic, onion and other essences from a mother's diet. Whether fetuses can taste these flavors isn't yet known, but scientists have found that a 33-week-old preemie will suck harder on a sweetened nipple than on a plain rubber one.

"During the last trimester, the fetus is swallowing up to a liter a day" of amniotic fluid, notes Julie Mennella, Ph.D., a biopsychologist at the Monell Chemical Senses Center in Philadelphia. She thinks the fluid may act as a "flavor bridge" to breast milk, which also carries food flavors from the mother's diet.

FETAL HEARING

Whether or not a fetus can taste, there's little question that it can hear. A very premature baby entering the world at 24 or 25 weeks responds to the sounds around it, observes Als, so its auditory apparatus must already have been functioning in the womb. Many pregnant women report a fetal jerk or sudden kick just after a door slams or a car backfires.

Even without such intrusions, the womb is not a silent place. Researchers who have inserted a hydrophone into the uterus of a pregnant woman have picked up a noise level "akin to the background noise in an apartment," according to DiPietro. Sounds include the whooshing of blood in the mother's vessels, the gurgling and rumbling of her stomach and intestines, as well as the tones of her voice filtered through tissues, bones, and fluid, and the voices of other people coming through the amniotic wall. Fifer has found that fetal heart rate slows when the mother is speaking, suggesting that the fetus not only hears and recognizes the sound, but is calmed by it.

FETAL VISION

Vision is the last sense to develop. A very premature infant can see light and shape; researchers presume that a fetus has the same ability Just as the womb isn't completely quiet, it isn't utterly dark, either. Says Filer: "There may be just enough visual stimulation filtered through the mother's tissues that a fetus can respond when the mother is in bright light," such as when she is sunbathing.

Japanese scientists have even reported a distinct fetal reaction to flashes of light shined on the mother's belly However, other researchers warn that exposing fetuses (or premature infants) to bright light before they are ready can be dangerous. In fact, Harvard's Als believes that retinal damage in premature infants, which has long been ascribed to high concentrations of oxygen, may actually be due to overexposure to light at the wrong time in development.

A six-month fetus, born about 14 weeks too early, has a brain that is neither prepared for nor expecting signals from the eyes to be transmitted into the brain's visual cortex, and from there into the executive-branch frontal lobes, where information is integrated. When the fetus is forced to see too much too soon, says Als, the accelerated stimulation may lead to aberrations of brain development.

FETAL LEARNING

Along with the ability to feel, see, and hear comes the capacity to learn and remember. These activities can be rudimentary, automatic, even biochemical. For example, a fetus, after an initial reaction of alarm, eventually stops responding to a repeated loud noise. The fetus displays the same kind of primitive learning, known as habituation, in response to its mother's voice, Fifer has found.

But the fetus has shown itself capable of far more. In the 1980s, psychology professor Anthony James DeCasper, Ph.D., and colleagues at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro, devised a feeding contraption that allows a baby to suck faster to hear one set of sounds through headphones and to suck slower to hear a different set. With this technique, DeCasper discovered that within hours of birth, a baby already prefers its mother's voice to a stranger's, suggesting it must have learned and remembered the voice, albeit not necessarily consciously, from its last months in the womb. More recently, he's found that a newborn prefers a story read to it repeatedly in the womb--in this case, The Cat in the Hat-over a new story introduced soon after birth.

DeCasper and others have uncovered more mental feats. Newborns can not only distinguish their mother from a stranger speaking, but would rather hear Mom's voice, especially the way it sounds filtered through amniotic fluid rather than through air. They're xenophobes, too: they prefer to hear Mom speaking in her native language than to hear her or someone else speaking in a foreign tongue.

By monitoring changes in fetal heart rate, psychologist JeanPierre Lecanuet, Ph.D., and his colleagues in Paris have found that fetuses can even tell strangers' voices apart. They also seem to like certain stories more than others. The fetal heartbeat will slow down when a familiar French fairy tale such as "La Poulette" ("The Chick") or "Le Petit Crapaud" ("The Little Toad"), is read near the mother's belly. When the same reader delivers another unfamiliar story, the fetal heartbeat stays steady

The fetus is likely responding to the cadence of voices and stories, not their actual words, observes Fifer, but the conclusion is the same: the fetus can listen, learn, and remember at some level, and, as with most babies and children, it likes the comfort and reassurance of the familiar.

FETAL PERSONALITY

It's no secret that babies are born with distinct differences and patterns of activity that suggest individual temperament. Just when and how the behavioral traits originate in the womb is now the subject of intense scrutiny.

In the first formal study of fetal temperament in 1996, DiPietro and her colleagues recorded the heart rate and movements of 31 fetuses six times before birth and compared them to readings taken twice after birth. (They've since extended their study to include 100 more fetuses.) Their findings: fetuses that are very active in the womb tend to be more irritable infants. Those with irregular sleep/wake patterns in the womb sleep more poorly as young infants. And fetuses with high heart rates become unpredictable, inactive babies.

"Behavior doesn't begin at birth," declares DiPietro. "It begins before and develops in predictable ways." One of the most important influences on development is the fetal environment. As Harvard's Als observes, "The fetus gets an enormous amount of 'hormonal bathing' through the mother, so its chronobiological rhythms are influenced by the mother's sleep/wake cycles, her eating patterns, her movements."

The hormones a mother puts out in response to stress also appear critical. DiPietro finds that highly pressured mothers-to-be tend to have more active fetuses--and more irritable infants. "The most stressed are working pregnant women," says DiPietro. "These days, women tend to work up to the day they deliver, even though the implications for pregnancy aren't entirely clear yet. That's our cultural norm, but I think it's insane."

Als agrees that working can be an enormous stress, but emphasizes that pregnancy hormones help to buffer both mother and fetus. Individual reactions to stress also matter. "The pregnant woman who chooses to work is a different woman already from the one who chooses not to work," she explains.

She's also different from the woman who has no choice but to work. DiPietro's studies show that the fetuses of poor women are distinct neurobehaviorally-less active, with a less variable heart rate--from the fetuses of middle-class women. Yet "poor women rate themselves as less stressed than do working middle-class women," she notes. DiPietro suspects that inadequate nutrition and exposure to pollutants may significantly affect the fetuses of poor women.

Stress, diet, and toxins may combine to have a harmful effect on intelligence. A recent study by biostatistician Bernie Devlin, Ph.D., of the University of Pittsburgh, suggests that genes may have less impact on IQ than previously thought and that the environment of the womb may account for much more. "Our old notion of nature influencing the fetus before birth and nurture after birth needs an update," DiPietro insists. "There is an antenatal environment, too, that is provided by the mother."

Parents-to-be who want to further their unborn child's mental development should start by assuring that the antenatal environment is wellnourished, low-stress, drug-free. Various authors and "experts" also have suggested poking the fetus at regular intervals, speaking to it through a paper tube or "pregaphone," piping in classical music, even flashing lights at the mother's abdomen.

Does such stimulation work? More importantly: Is it safe? Some who use these methods swear their children are smarter, more verbally and musically inclined, more physically coordinated and socially adept than average. Scientists, however, are skeptical.

"There has been no defended research anywhere that shows any enduring effect from these stimulations," asserts Filer. "Since no one can even say for certain when a fetus is awake, poking them or sticking speakers on the mother's abdomen may be changing their natural sleep patterns. No one would consider poking or prodding a newborn baby in her bassinet or putting a speaker next to her ear, so why would you do such a thing with a fetus?"

Als is more emphatic. "My bet is that poking, shaking, or otherwise deliberately stimulating the fetus might alter its developmental sequence, and anything that affects the development of the brain comes at a cost."

Gently talking to the fetus, however, seems to pose little risk. Fifer suggests that this kind of activity may help parents as much as the fetus. "Thinking about your fetus, talking to it, having your spouse talk to it, will all help prepare you for this new creature that's going to jump into your life and turn it upside down," he says--once it finally makes its anti-climactic entrance.

WHAT'S THE IMPACT ON ABORTION?

Though research in fetal psychology focuses on the last trimester, when most abortions are illegal, the thought of a fetus dreaming, listening and responding to its mother's voice is sure to add new complexity to the debate. The new findings undoubtedly will strengthen the convictions of right-to-lifers--and they may shake the certainty of pro-choice proponents who believe that mental life begins at birth.

Many of the scientists engaged in studying the fetus, however, remain detached from the abortion controversy, insisting that their work is completely irrelevant to the debate.

I don't think that fetal research informs the issue at all," contends psychologist Janet DiPietro of Johns Hopkins University. "The essence of the abortion debate is: When does life begin? Some people believe it begins at conception, the other extreme believes that it begins after the baby is born, and there's a group in the middle that believes it begins at around 24 or 25 weeks, when a fetus can live outside of the womb, though it needs a lot of help to do so.

"Up to about 25 weeks, whether or not it's sucking its thumb or has personality or all that, the fetus cannot survive outside of its mother. So is that life, or not? That is a moral, ethical, and religious question, not one for science. Things can behave and not be alive. Right-to-lifers may say that this research proves that a fetus is alive, but it does not. It cannot."

"Fetal research only changes the abortion debate for people who think that life starts at some magical point," maintains Heidelise AIs, a psychologist at Harvard University. "If you believe that life begins at conception, then you don't need the proof of fetal behavior." For others, however, abortion is a very complex issue and involves far more than whether research shows that a fetus "Your circumstances and personal beliefs have much more impact on the decision," she observes.

Like DiPietro, AIs realizes that "people may use this research as an emotional way to draw people to the pro-life side, but it should not be used by belligerent activists." Instead, she believes, it should be applied to helping mothers have the healthiest pregnancy possible and preparing them to best parent their child. Columbia University psychologist William Fifer, Ph.D., agrees. "The research is much more relevant for issues regarding viable fetuses--preemies."

Simply put, say the three, their work is intended to help the babies that live--not to decide whether fetuses should. By: Janet L. Hopson
Originally published by Psychology Today: Sep/Oct 98

Partial Birth Abortion Ban Court Transcripts (Please read & Forward to EVERYONE)


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: abortion; bellieni; carlobellieni; drcarlobellieni; fetalpain; inutero; prenataldevelopment
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1 posted on 05/31/2004 5:10:33 PM PDT by Coleus
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To: 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ...


2 posted on 05/31/2004 5:11:10 PM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: Pharmboy


3 posted on 05/31/2004 5:13:23 PM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: Coleus

Thanks for the ping. Bookmarked for later read...but I scanned a bit of it and it looks right on.


4 posted on 05/31/2004 5:17:16 PM PDT by Pharmboy (History's greatest agent for freedom: The US Armed Forces)
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To: Coleus

"the verifiable suffering of the human fetus poses serious reflections for doctors and researchers"

I beg to differ. Abortionists take great delight in maimimg and murdering babies in the name of choice.


5 posted on 05/31/2004 5:29:29 PM PDT by freeangel (freeangel)
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To: Coleus
"Attention, John Kerry ! Attention, John Kerry! Call your office!"
6 posted on 05/31/2004 5:31:20 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: CovenBuster

Ping for Life!


7 posted on 05/31/2004 5:31:37 PM PDT by DesertDreamer ("Anger is not an agenda for the future of America."~~President George W. Bush, 2/23/2004)
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To: Coleus

This is a great article! Thanks for posting it, Coleus.


8 posted on 05/31/2004 5:36:10 PM PDT by syriacus (Have you hugged a rudderless, down-at-the-mouth liberal today?)
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To: Coleus
"Up to about 25 weeks, whether or not it's sucking its thumb or has personality or all that, the fetus cannot survive outside of its mother. So is that life, or not? That is a moral, ethical, and religious question, not one for science. Things can behave and not be alive. Right-to-lifers may say that this research proves that a fetus is alive, but it does not. It cannot."

Well, if you leave a 1 year old child outside and never attend to it, it will eventually die, so by that standard a 1 year old child is not "viable." If "a fetus is not alive," then why are there those determined to kill it? I forgot -- abortion is big bu$ine$$.

9 posted on 05/31/2004 5:39:50 PM PDT by Wilhelm Tell (Lurking since 1997!)
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To: freeangel; Coleus
"the verifiable suffering of the human fetus poses serious reflections for doctors and researchers"

I beg to differ. Abortionists take great delight in maimimg and murdering babies in the name of choice.

It should pose problems. Sadly, Planned Avoidance-of Parenthood is probably hot on the trail of this important study - but only to try to discredit or silence it or both.

And this little blurb in the article points out just where their thinking is headed:

Simply put, say the three, their work is intended to help the babies that live--not to decide whether fetuses should.

Babies that live. Funny how they are fetuses who may or may not be given the same respect and care 'we' give other non-humans like whales and spotted owls and trees, but if, and only if, the 'mother' decides it should live, then, pre-born or not, it's now a baby worthy of being saved. Well, unless it has serious defects...even surgically correctable things like cleft-palate.

10 posted on 05/31/2004 5:42:19 PM PDT by fortunecookie
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To: MHGinTN; Coleus; nickcarraway; Mr. Silverback; Canticle_of_Deborah; TenthAmendmentChampion; ...

Please let me know if you want on or off my Pro-Life Ping List.

11 posted on 05/31/2004 5:47:33 PM PDT by cpforlife.org (The Missing Key of the Pro-Life Movement is at www.CpForLife.org)
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Partial-Birth Abortion Trial: Babies Feel Pain
12 posted on 05/31/2004 5:49:51 PM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: Coleus

**As soon as it is born, the child shows in a scientifically demonstrable way that it recognizes its mother's voice and distinguishes it from that of a stranger. Where has he learned that voice other than in the maternal womb?**

Wonderful article on the Feast of the Visitation!


13 posted on 05/31/2004 6:05:10 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Coleus

Send this to Planned Parenhood and other feminazi organizations. They will reject it, but need to read something besides the interminable "it's my body and my choice" tripe they memorize. Abortion is murder and we continue to see millions of babies die needlessly due to liberals and the liberal courts.


14 posted on 05/31/2004 6:07:04 PM PDT by Paulus Invictus
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To: Coleus

The psychologists evidently never took a biology course. If they did, it's not evident from their comments.

"Alive" is well defined in the biological sciences, and the zygote qualifies as being alive in that he or she maintains homeostasis, grows, and functions according to the nature of a member of the species at that stage of development.

What these last 2 women are discussing is the "moral status" of the embryo: not his or her biological life, but whether he or she is a legal person. It is true that science cannot determine the personhood of any of us.

However, if there is to be any equality of protection of the right not to be killed, there must be an acknowledgement of all of us who qualify as members of the species. If we were not human persons at conception, then we are faced with the dilemma of naming some other, arbitrary moment when we became persons who have the right to be killed. And that is where we as a society have found ourselves for the last 30 years.

And the delineating moment of personhood varies with geography, the local technology, and the wishes of the very people that the helpless most depend upon.


The next logical question is that if we can become a person because we aquire a certain function, a certain size, or a certain age, then can we become not a person if we no longer measure up? How long must we possess or lack a certain quality before our status changes from non-person to person and back again?

Als raises an interesting question with her assertion that there are many factors to consider when naming another member of our species as a person. How many factors, what weight shall we give each factor, and who will make the decision?

Tell me psychologists, do you measure up to my idea of the qualities of a person? If I'm not convinced - and with logic like this, you probably won't be able to pass the test I design with my own purposes in mind - may I act to enslave or kill you? Why should I even test you, if there's a chance that you aren't a person, why not go ahead and do what ever I want, all the while preventing you from expressing your personhood?


Don't worry, my personal test is human species - not whether your logic matches mine.


15 posted on 05/31/2004 6:10:18 PM PDT by hocndoc (Choice is the # 1 killer in the US)
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To: hocndoc

Sorry about the spelling mistakes. But, I don't think I deserve to lose my status as a person over mispelling "acquire."


16 posted on 05/31/2004 6:12:50 PM PDT by hocndoc (Choice is the # 1 killer in the US)
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To: Coleus
You know, it really bugs me when people call this procedure a "partial birth abortion". That's a politically loaded term invented by anti-abortion activists. We should refer to it by its proper medical term: Dilation and Intact Extraction, or D.I.E. No, wait a minute...
17 posted on 05/31/2004 6:14:07 PM PDT by megatherium
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To: megatherium

Just to be on the safe side: my previous post was an attempt at acid humor. I'm certainly pro-life.


18 posted on 05/31/2004 6:15:39 PM PDT by megatherium
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To: Coleus

Clearly a tool of the prolifer nazis. This man must be reeducated. /sarcasm


19 posted on 05/31/2004 6:22:03 PM PDT by Ronly Bonly Jones (truth is truth)
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To: Coleus

"If the debate is whether or not the fetus feels pain, we lose."

-Kathryn Kohlbert, National Abortion Federation, 1996


20 posted on 05/31/2004 6:50:23 PM PDT by Lunatic Fringe (John F-ing Kerry??? NO... F-ING... WAY!!!)
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