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To: nonsporting
U.S. Constitution: Article VI

All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding.

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

______________________________________

The meaning above is clear, in context with the oath to support our Constitution. Read Art VI.

"...but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office of public trust under the United States." (Article VI, para 3).
"under the United States" is key here. This provision only refers to offices of the general government (United States), not the State governments.

In context, "under the United States" clearly refers to "ANY office of public trust".

The Constitutional principles involved here are obvious.
ALL officials, Fed/State/Local were bound to honor our Constitution, and NO religious tests were to be used to qualify them for ANY office.

11 posted on 07/07/2004 11:27:52 AM PDT by tpaine (The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being" -- Solzhenitsyn.)
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To: tpaine
In context, "under the United States" clearly refers to "ANY office of public trust".

No, it does not. If that were the intent then simply saying "any office of public trust" is sufficient. Instead, the qualifying (limiting) phrase "under the United States" is appended.

The phrase "United States" means something clear and distinct from the "several States". The conjunction "but" introduces a contrast from that which precedes it in Article IV, para 3, that is, the Oath of Affirmation applies to all mentioned:

[1] "the Senators and Representatives before mentioned". These are Senators and Representatives of the "United States", namely the Congress of the "United States" (Article I, Section 1, ff).

[2] "Members of the several State Legislatures"

[3] "all executive and judicial Officers both of the "United States" and of the "several States".

But, the religious test is proscribed as a qualification for offices or public trust under the "United States", NOT the several States. If the founders had intended the scope of para 3 to include both the United States and the several States, they would have either included it in [3] above, or repeated the qualifying phrases. But they did not. Rather they presented a change of scope, that being limited to the "United States" (the general government). They had been very careful in preserving this distinction, and the absense of the phrase "and the several States" shows that they are preserving this distinction.

As proof of this reading, several States had "religious tests" as qualification for State office well into the 19th century. Massachusettes, in 1820, (see the Daniel Webster article I provided you a link to), had such a religious test. Maine was debating whether or not to include such a religious test for State office holders.

12 posted on 07/07/2004 1:59:20 PM PDT by nonsporting
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To: tpaine
In context, "under the United States" clearly refers to "ANY office of public trust".

"under the United States" means under the general government, not under the several States. A complete analysis of usage of the phrase "under the United States" in the COTUS reveals this.

[1] (Article 1, Section 3, para 6) "Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of Honor, Trust or Profit under the United States...".

The impeachment authority of the United States is limited to the United States. In other words, the US House cannot impeach a State office holder, etc.

[2] (Article I, Section 6, para 2) "No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States, which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been encreased during such time: and no Person holding any Office under the United States, shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office."

The United States can only increase the emoluments (pay) of its own, not the State's.

[3] (Article II, Section 1, para 2) "Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector."

Can a State appoint one of its own as an Elector? Don't know if this has ever been done. But, my guess is that the only folks prohibited are US Congress folk, other federal officer holders or holders of Trust or Profit under the general government.

[4] (Article VI, para 3) "The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

We've been over this one already.

[5] (Amendment XIV, Section 3) "No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."

This last clearly distinguishes the different categories: "under the United States" and "under any State" are distinct catagories.

It's clear from the US Constitution itself, if it is internally consistent, that "under the United States" refers to the general government, not the several States. I think I've squeezed it dry.

13 posted on 07/07/2004 4:42:23 PM PDT by nonsporting
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To: tpaine

You are just wrong.

Multiple states HAD RELIGIOUS TESTS that were ruled constitutional!

This was well after the Constitution was adopted.

Look it up.


16 posted on 07/08/2004 10:43:50 AM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?" -- Abraham Lincoln)
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