[AngieGal]

**And below is the actual hard data for Europe and the US on percentage of out-of-wedlock births.**

I appreciate your research on this point. I have read the article you posted and looked at your statistics. I'll look into it further (including read your article jwalsh07 - thanks).

However, rising rates of out-of-wedlock births in Scandanavian countries aside. I think Dobson has some very compelling reasons to believe that same-sex unions are dangerous. Even if Dobson made an error in this (and I'm not sure if he has). You must agree that putting a hole in one part of one point of an eleven point argument is not sufficient to crumble it.

[Torie]

Did you all read the link in reply # 17? That is where Kurtz is taken on as to interior points. I just thought I would just nuke the whole edifice with one fell swoop by showing the data from the less enlightened lands. (What IS going on in Georgia by the way?) The numbers simply buttress my sense that the assertion is intuitively ludicrous on its face in any event, as well as statistical gigo and specious causality.

Ya, some of the other points are tendentious (it will undermine "Christianity" for example), and/or unsubstantiated as well, but there are only so many hours in a day.

There is a real fiscal issue however, that needs to be addressed. John Walsh is right, that it will be fraud city as folks just get married to rip off the system, in considerably greater numbers than now. But that cannot and must not be a reason to deny such a key "right" and important aspect of one's life, in and of itself. If it costs more money, well that's just life in the big city.