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Indep. Police Stage Roadblock To Check Driver's Licenses
Kansas City Channel 9 ^ | 7-15-2004

Posted on 07/19/2004 1:29:52 PM PDT by JOAT

INDEPENDENCE, Mo. -- Police in Independence conducted a driver checkpoint on Thursday, but it wasn't to look for drunken drivers.

For about an hour Thursday afternoon, officers stopped vehicles to make sure drivers had valid licenses. But some are questioning the legality of holding such a checkpoint.

Independence police have arrested more than 1,300 drivers this year for driving without a valid license, KMBC's Jim Flink reported. On Thursday, police stopped about 300 drivers on a busy street.

Independence Officer Tom Gentry said drivers without licenses pose a safety concern.

"It's a public safety issue. On public highways, you don't want illegal drivers out there who might pose a grave danger," he said.

But Gentry added there are other reasons for wanting to make the stops.

"People who don't bother to get their driver's license or get them renewed -- usually that's an indicator of other problems as well," Gentry said.

Independence officers issued 10 tickets on Thursday, and they also arrested four people on outstanding warrants and one person for possession of narcotics and drug paraphernalia.

But Dick Kurtenback, of the American Civil Liberties Union, said he's troubled by police stopping drivers for this type of search.

"This bothers me -- they're conducting general searches without probable cause," he said. "I think the problem there is they're changing some essential aspects of this country's character, and I think it's troublesome that they're doing that."

Kurtenbach said the searches may violate people's Fourth Amendment right against unreasonable search and seizure. Some drivers with whom Flink spoke agreed.

"For public safety, I think it's all right. But it does kind of bother me, in the sense that I think it's an invasion of my personal liberty," driver T.K. Shiao said.

But motorist Jan Huff-Soper thought police were doing the right thing.

"It sounds like they have a lot of people driving without licenses, and I would hope people driving out there would have valid licenses," she said.

Police said the number of arrests this year proves the roadblocks work. The police department is basing its use of checkpoints on a Supreme Court case that allows DUI roadblocks in the interest of public safety.

Kurtenbach said drivers without licenses aren't inherently dangerous, even if they are breaking the law.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: 4thamendment; biggovernment; billofrights; fakeconservatives; freedomlost; governmentassavior; privacy; rino; sheeple; statism; welfarestate
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To: pierrem15
If the stated reason is lack of a valid driver's license, then any other evidence found or any other charge is inadmissible.

You've got to be kidding, they'll bust you for whatever they find. Including an "unlicensed concealed firearm". Several years ago the scam was to set up "game check, checkpoints along I-80 in Nebraska at rest stops. Surprise, surpriser, in addition to game and parks rangers, they had DEA, BATF, State Patrol and other officers, just waiting to take your "business". In that case the main target was drugs, but they'd take what they could get.

41 posted on 07/19/2004 2:30:44 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: freeeee

"Compelling state interest" appears nowhere in the Constitution.

Indeed. Perhaps the phrase is found in the same version that has "chilling effect" or "separation of church and state" or....


42 posted on 07/19/2004 2:33:46 PM PDT by jim macomber (Author: "Bargained for Exchange", "Art & Part", "A Grave Breach" http://www.jamesmacomber.com)
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To: bjs1779

Looks like we need permission for more and more these days.
And we give,allow them to steal, almost half of our money to do this to us.
Is something wrong with this picture?


43 posted on 07/19/2004 2:34:02 PM PDT by chuckwalla (the insanity, the lunacy these days)
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To: NJ_gent
The problem is that this is a search without probable cause. Yes driving without a license is a crime, or at least a violation, but they have no reason to think any particular driver is committing that violation. If they stop them for a nonfunctional license plate illumination light, or some such, and discover they don't have a license, then they can ticket them for it. A fishing expedition like this is no different than the general warrants the British used to issue in the colonies. We fought a war to get rid of that, and now it's back, except that they don't even bother with the paperwork of the general warrant.
44 posted on 07/19/2004 2:37:09 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: JOAT

If it is OK to check for emissions stickers thewn it is OK to check for drunk drivers or drivers without licenses.

We expect these policemen and ladies to put their life on the line, which they do, then there must be a way to find the perps.

The ACLU sucks big time.


45 posted on 07/19/2004 2:40:07 PM PDT by chatham
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To: JOAT

If you have nothing to hide, then, you have nothing to hide. To protect your fragile sensitivities, however, I suggest this: Place a mag scanner in each car or other dynamically linked device that will not allow your car to start if you haven't paid for your license and registration. They have these devices for people who fail to make their car payments, so lets get on with this.


46 posted on 07/19/2004 2:40:56 PM PDT by wildearp
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To: chatham

So the safety of law enforcement trumps freedom and liberty and the constitution?
Does it say that in the constituiton anywhere?
Then they need to monitor every dwelling to make sure that no-one leaves with intent to commit any crime or violate any law.
What you are advocating is a police state.


47 posted on 07/19/2004 2:43:54 PM PDT by chuckwalla (the insanity, the lunacy these days)
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To: chuckwalla
Can you show me where the probable cause is in a random stop and search for a document!

Certainly not. But, I suspect the courts are justifying it with some rendition of the ol' "when you're on public property -- especially when you operate a two-ton implement of destruction on public property -- you implicitly agree to ... (blah, blah, blah) ... for the public good."

Again, the difference is public vs. private property. I'm not saying I agree with it. I'm just saying that's likely the justification, the product of a very loose interpretation of the Constitutional language (as we're used to seeing at every turn).

Thus, coming into our private residences would still be a huge step from what we have here, stopping vehicles on the public roadway.

48 posted on 07/19/2004 2:43:58 PM PDT by newgeezer (A conservative who conserves -- a REAL capitalist!)
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To: JOAT
Police in this Country are a joke - They love raising revenue (while hiding under the skirt of "public safety") -

We need to elect judges and sheriff's that will put a stop to check-points! - period.

49 posted on 07/19/2004 2:44:57 PM PDT by POA2
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To: The Libertarian Dude
"Every American is a potential criminal. We must be treated as such."

This is exactly how cow-boy police like to think - Well, that is until they come across a "real" criminal and then they hide and quiver while innocent people are killed -

50 posted on 07/19/2004 2:46:06 PM PDT by POA2
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To: chatham
If it is OK to check for emissions stickers thewn it is OK to check for drunk drivers or drivers without licenses.

It's not ok to be detained by an armed agent of the state without probable cause to check for anything.

there must be a way to find the perps.

That "way" must observe the Constitution that created the authority they exercise. Roadblocks fail that test miserably.

51 posted on 07/19/2004 2:46:48 PM PDT by freeeee ("Owning" property in the US just means you have one less landlord.)
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To: JOAT

bump


52 posted on 07/19/2004 2:46:54 PM PDT by Lady Eileen
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To: wildearp

Also put a series of questions to be answered and checked by a government official before leaving home. If any are incorrect then all doors to your house are locked and the police just have to come and get you. Far safer for law enforcement.
Any officer throughout the day can re-ask any question and if the answer is not compatible then you are hiding something and are to be detained for further questioning. For the safety of law enforcement and the good of the public.


53 posted on 07/19/2004 2:49:43 PM PDT by chuckwalla (the insanity, the lunacy these days)
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To: El Gato
If they stop them for a nonfunctional license plate illumination light, or some such, and discover they don't have a license, then they can ticket them for it. A fishing expedition like this is no different than the general warrants the British used to issue in the colonies. We fought a war to get rid of that, and now it's back, except that they don't even bother with the paperwork of the general warrant.

Exactly right - how people sit back and think the police are doing a service are just odd - With this reasoning - why don't we just let police from now on come into our homes (whenever they want) with no notice - just come in - I'm sure this would help stop a lot of domestic violence (so it must be worth it!!) -

54 posted on 07/19/2004 2:49:51 PM PDT by POA2
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To: POA2
We need to elect judges and sheriff's that will put a stop to check-points! - period.

In order to do that, we'll need to convince sufficient numbers of the sheeple that checkpoints are a bad idea. Good luck. ;O)

55 posted on 07/19/2004 2:53:16 PM PDT by newgeezer (A conservative who conserves -- a REAL capitalist!)
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To: clamper1797

Sorry folks, but it's been happening for years now, and the SCOTUS has already signed-off on it.

Next stop - ID papers and internal passports.


56 posted on 07/19/2004 2:54:38 PM PDT by Redbob
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To: wildearp
To protect your fragile sensitivities, however, I suggest this: Place a mag scanner in each car or other dynamically linked device that will not allow your car to start if you haven't paid for your license and registration.

Great idea! You seem like an accommodating fellow, perhaps you could volunteer for the pilot program.

Since you have nothing to hide, let's just install Lexan® walls in your home too. That way you won't impede the good officers ability to visually check your home for violations each afternoon.

I'm sure your hardy sensibilities would be fine with submitting a hair and stool sample once a month (hey, it's only 12 times a year!) to safeguard and verify your fitness to hold a job too. After all, mandatory drug testing as a condition for continued employment is no bother when you're not a drug user.

Maybe if we wish really hard some genius can create a health screening analyzer at every public place to insure that sick people aren't allowed to mingle with the rest of the sheep and infect the herd. The mandatory shock/obedience collars would keep us safe in our pens until we recouperate.

I'm glad we all have nothing to hide, it will make our chains rest so much easier for our masters er, benefactors.

Sheesh.

57 posted on 07/19/2004 3:01:51 PM PDT by JOAT
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To: JOAT

Somehow, I don't find this unreasonable. Just like I don't mind having my trunk checked when I cross into NYC through the Holland Tunnel. If random checks result in the arrest of drug runners, or terrorists about to set bombs off in restaurants or shopping malls, then I'm willing to sacrafice a little of my "rights" to be free of unreasonable searches. If you're driving on the highways, that presumes you have a valid drivers license. If a random check shows you don't have one and they find something illegal in your trunk -- tough for you.


58 posted on 07/19/2004 3:02:43 PM PDT by Imagine
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To: Imagine
Somehow, I don't find this unreasonable.

Somehow, I am not surprised that someone who lives in Hillary country would think random fishing expeditions are 'okay' so long as everyone 'feels' safe.

So we're even.

59 posted on 07/19/2004 3:07:36 PM PDT by JOAT
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To: Imagine
I'm willing to sacrafice a little of my "rights" to be free of unreasonable searches

Great. And you're always free to do so. When they ask to search your person or belongings, you should be happy to know you can consent to a search.

Problem is, the issue here isn't just your rights. It's the rights of others. And those rights aren't yours to sacrifice.

60 posted on 07/19/2004 3:09:17 PM PDT by freeeee ("Owning" property in the US just means you have one less landlord.)
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