[VadeRetro]

This thread strongly reminds me of the great cackle, shriek, and jabber that arose on FR in early 2000 at the announcement by National Geographic of the discovery that the fossil known as Archaeoraptor was a composite fake. "All of Darwin's evidence" (that is, a fossil announced a few months earlier in late 1999) had supposedly just collapsed.

One guy in Germany has been fudging, apparently sometimes completely skipping, the lab test procedures to pull dates out of his wazoo. All the evidence for Neanderthal Man from all sources has supposedly crumbled, along with every Carbon-14 date ever done.

A wisp of hope, and reason (even the ability to read) flies out the window. This kind of thing is also why I accuse creationism and its front movement ID of rooting for ignorance against the advancement of knowledge. Despite all the routine bland denials, one can see it plainly on this thread.

Creation/ID has nothing to offer but perpetual wilfull ignorance.

[bondserv]

This kind of thing is also why I accuse creationism and its front movement ID of rooting for ignorance against the advancement of knowledge.

Next time a Creationists evidence is universally accepted, then they are found out to be deceptive, I expext the same response from you.

Intellectually honest people are very disturbed, and those that are not wave their hands.

[TN4Liberty]

This thread strongly reminds me of the great cackle, shriek, and jabber that arose on FR in early 2000...

I think what this argues is that all data and all theories are subject to revision. It seems to me that those who cling to any given scientific explanation as the last word on any matter are as guilty of this as anyone.

The data changed. In light of new evidence, it is appropriate to question models that were built on refuted evidence. Why is that hard for "science-oriented" people to see? Isn't that the essence of the scientific method?

From out here, committed proponents of evolution are every bit as blind to new ideas as committed creationists are.

[js1138]

One guy in Germany has been fudging, apparently sometimes completely skipping, the lab test procedures to pull dates out of his wazoo.

Are you guys aware that Nixon sent John Kerry on a secret mission to Cambodia in 1968? This proves that all our presidential dating methods are wrong.

[DannyTN]

"One guy in Germany has been fudging, apparently sometimes completely skipping, the lab test procedures to pull dates out of his wazoo. All the evidence for Neanderthal Man from all sources has supposedly crumbled, along with every Carbon-14 date ever done."

This raises several questions:

• How much other independent evidence is there for pre-historic Neanderthal?
• If Oxford is right that these Neanderthal bones were only 7500 years old, then what does that do to our understanding of Neanderthal? Do existing models have Neanderthal living as recently as 7500 years ago.
• How easy is it for others to commit the same mistakes this researcher made?
• Have new techniques questioned enough results of the old techniques, that perhaps all prehistoric bones should be retested using the new techniques? In other words, how big of an indictment is this really? Is it just one guy or is it the whole field of study?