Posted on 09/14/2004 9:27:02 AM PDT by jmc813
This is a solution in search of a problem. If people need mental healthcare they can seek it. Yes, I recognize that not all cases will be recognized, and not all mentally ill will seek help. And here we have a choice to make:
We can respect the right of individuals (and parents) to be responsible for their own health, or whether the almighty state will intrude upon everyone and impose their will against their wishes and in effect become a parent. If we are to call ourselves free, there is only one choice. Ron Paul eloquently states the problem with this sort of "help":
"The real issue is whether the state owns your kids. When the government orders "universal" mental health screening in schools, it really means "mandatory." Parents, children, and their private doctors should decide whether a child has mental health problems, not government bureaucrats. That this even needs to be stated is a sign of just how obedient our society has become toward government. What kind of free people would turn their children's most intimate health matters over to government strangers? How in the world have we allowed government to become so powerful and arrogant that it assumes it can force children to accept psychiatric treatment whether parents object or not?"
Also, please direct me to the part of the Constitution that delegates power to the federal government to concern itself with pediatric mental illness.
Should I have been offended?
It's not my place to say whether you should be offended or not.
However if you and especially your parents were not asked for consent, the school was out of line and I would have been offended.
I'm interested in what actions will be taken against those who refuse. I'm guessing that parents will be declared negligent and become entangled with CPS, whose reputations aren't exactly stellar.
Not only that, but one of the goals of the "New Freedom Initiative" (it really makes me sick to call it that) is to screen all adults as well. I will flatly refuse to take part. This is not negotiable, I am totally and utterly intransigent in this position. Will I be arrested? Denied a drivers license, etc...?
That would be a fine compromise. The problem, though, is that the families which decline might come under, ahem, undue scrutiny. I don't want that to happen, either.
Agreed. And there's only one way to keep that from happening, scrap the program to begin with.
Yes, a few will suffer because they didn't get a diagnosis. Well, that's part of freedom's cost. Freedom isn't cheap or easy. Freedom means some people get hurt, and some who can't or won't care for themselves slip through the cracks. But if we are to call ourselves a free people, this is part of the price that must be paid.
I'm not totally familiar with the program, but I doubt it was a bureaucrat which drew up the screening test. More likely a committee of doctors.
And, as far as the Constitution, that'd be article 1, section 8 and article 2, section 2.
We can respect the right of individuals (and parents) to be responsible for their own health,
Well, how far are we to carry that? Mental illness may not be contagious, but its effects are pernicious on society and my right to live peaceably. Just as society, the government, used to quarantine & treat carriers of contagious diseases (remember Typhoid Mary?) to prevent danger to the rest of us, diagnosis and treatment of those who are mentally ill is not a Bad Thing. Especially since, and I keep harping on this, mental illness is resistant to people seeking out help on their own.
(Tinfoil hat is firmly in place now), I see this as a GUN CONTROL ploy! With 20,000+ listed so-called mental diseases now, the only way to take the peoples guns away is by declaring them Mentally Unfit (ill)!
Check every state or local gun ordinance, I'm 99.459% sure that if you are or have been 'diagnosed' with a mental illness you CANNOT own a gun - period. So if kids are diagnosed in elementary school as being 'mentally ill' they can NEVER get a gun - because they'll never be 'cured'.
As I understand it, there is no 'cure' for ADD or ADHD. Just a life long regimen of taking mind altering drugs to 'control' their 'illness'.
This is GUN-CONTROL for the future - period.
(gotta go, my bullets need polishing)
I can't find anything concerning pediatric mental illness in either of those. Could you be more specific?
Well, how far are we to carry that?
Until your rights are infringed upon.
Mental illness may not be contagious, but its effects are pernicious on society and my right to live peaceably.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "live peaceably". If you mean you can feel secure in your bed at night knowing that the government approves of your neighbor's thought processes, no that is not a right. If you mean some nut can't beat down your door or assault you, sure. But you don't need to go looking for those people. By definition if your rights have been intruded upon, 'they' will have found you and you can call the police and/or defend yourself appropraitely. This is the essential difference between pro-active and reactive government.
diagnosis and treatment of those who are mentally ill is not a Bad Thing
If angels ran it, it might not be. We've seen what happens when mere mortals in government get ahold of such and it aint pretty.
Not only that, but making people who are minding their own business to subject themselves to a government headshrinker certainly is a bad thing. Part of freedom is the right to be left alone. That's my "living peaceably", and you wouldn't want to violate that, would you?
So do I.
See, the key word here is "guessing". We are all guessing, we don't have facts, but are already prepared to go to the barricades. Could it be we are rapping on the open door. All passion and emotions. Where can we get the facts. Are we the fabled Arab street which can be ignited by a single rumor?
I was unaware you were a pregnant woman or elementary school student. ;-)
As far as the Constitution, the Founding Fathers were rather generic. In article 1, "...general welfare" ring any bells? In article 2, "various executive departments" isn't very specific, either.
This is the essential difference between pro-active and reactive government.
You believe that our, or any free society's, government is required to be reactive?
We're just discussing the issue right now.
However there is cause for concern. Other governments have atrocious track records when they get ahold of "mental health", coupled with our government's defining characteristic of mission creep, this is a cause for concern. And once a government program is in place it is historically nearly impossible to end it. So the time for concern is right now.
Where can we get the facts.
Right here: http://www.mentalhealthcommission.gov/reports/Finalreport/FullReport.htm
Yes, it does.
"If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one, subject to particular exceptions."
- James Madison, Letter to Edmund Pendleton, January 21, 1792 _Madison_ 1865, I, page 546
"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators."
- James Madison, Letter to James Robertson, April 20, 1831 _Madison_ 1865, IV, pages 171-172
"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated."
- Thomas Jefferson
The "General Welfare" Clause. What Does It Really Mean?
That is, unless you take FDR's (the most notorious liberal who ever lived) definition of the General Welfare clause over that of the founders.
In article 2, "various executive departments" isn't very specific, either
There is no office of mental health delegated.
You believe that our, or any free society's, government is required to be reactive?
Absolutely!
That's my point - there's no Department of State, no Department of War, no Treasury, no nothing specifically mentioned in the Constituition. Just the President.
I give you as exhibit number one, Goal 4 of the President's New Freedom (gag) Commission on Mental Health.
"Goal 4 - Early Mental Health Screening, Assessment, and Referral to Services Are Common Practice
In a transformed mental health system, the early detection of mental health problems in children and adults - through routine and comprehensive testing and screening - will be an expected and typical occurrence. At the first sign of difficulties, preventive interventions will be started to keep problems from escalating. For example, a child whose serious emotional disturbance is identified early will receive care, preventing the potential onset of a co-occurring substance use disorder and breaking a cycle that otherwise can lead to school failure and other problems.
Quality screening and early intervention will occur in both readily accessible, low-stigma settings, such as primary health care facilities and schools, and in settings in which a high level of risk exists for mental health problems, such as criminal justice, juvenile justice, and child welfare systems. Both children and adults WILL BE screened for mental illnesses during their routine physical exams.
For consumers of all ages, early detection, assessment, and links with treatment and supports will help prevent mental health problems from worsening. Service providers across settings will also routinely screen for co-occurring mental illnesses and substance use disorders. (more war on drugs intrusions) Early intervention and appropriate treatment will also improve outcomes and reduce pain and suffering for children and adults who have or who are at risk for co-occurring mental and addictive disorders.
Early detection of mental disorders will result in substantially shorter and less disabling courses of impairment.
For consumers of all ages, early detection, assessment, and links with treatment and supports will help prevent mental health problems from worsening.
To aid in transforming the mental health system, the Commission makes four recommendations:
4.1 Promote the mental health of young children.
4.2 Improve and expand school mental health programs.
4.3 Screen for co-occurring mental and substance use disorders and link with integrated treatment strategies.
4.4 Screen for mental disorders in primary health care, across the lifespan, and connect to treatment and supports."
Point taken. But all those offices derive their existance from delegated powers in Article 1, Section 8. Seeing as how there is no delegated mental health power in said section, that office cannot constitutionally exist.
Refuse to answer intrusive mental health questions. Don't consent to allow your kids to take part. Think about what others have done for their freedom. It won't be that hard. All we need is a little spine here. If enough people refuse to go along with this, if we make this an embarrassing screwup for them, it will be abandoned as a futile effort.
They're pushing to see how far we'll yield. Be firm. If we give them this it'll only encourage them more.
I agree this does get old. Then again, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
I don't have kids but I deal with them through my work and believe me....a lot of parents are catching on to the drugging of children....and they are not going for it. We have kids coming in to our office that have been diagnosed with a multitude of mental health issues...some have been told they need to be 'put in an institution' by Pediatric Neurologists and Psychiatrists! The parents are not giving up. Through careful monitoring of nutrition and supplements needed to improve problems such as autism, ADD, ADHD, depression, bi-polarism, chronic migrianes et al, we are able to help them assimilate into regular classes and help improve their overall health and lives. It can be done without drugs if people would take the time to really investigate their options.
I'm seeing a lot of that too. The parents I know consider it a form of child abuse and are hell bent against it.
My compliments to your work.
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