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Underlining added by your humble poster.
1 posted on 09/27/2004 11:38:32 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: VadeRetro; jennyp; Junior; longshadow; RadioAstronomer; Physicist; LogicWings; Doctor Stochastic; ..
Science list Ping! This is an elite subset of the Evolution list.
See the list's description in my freeper homepage. Then FReepmail me to be added or dropped.
2 posted on 09/27/2004 11:39:30 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (I'm PatrickHenry and I approve this message.)
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To: PatrickHenry

Probably because they used a Hp-15 back in the day...


3 posted on 09/27/2004 11:40:12 AM PDT by 2banana (They want to die for Islam and we want to kill them)
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To: PatrickHenry
The only other possibility is the existence of new physics.

Or Romulan scans. ;)

4 posted on 09/27/2004 11:41:40 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves
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To: PatrickHenry

This might be over my head but I'm glad you posted. I'll bookmark for later. :)


5 posted on 09/27/2004 11:43:10 AM PDT by cvq3842
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To: PatrickHenry

Spacehead bump!!!!!!


6 posted on 09/27/2004 11:44:38 AM PDT by Nowhere Man ("Laws are the spider webs through which the big bugs fly past and the little ones get caught.")
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To: PatrickHenry

I believe that this effect was confirmed during one of Cassini's earth flybys.


8 posted on 09/27/2004 11:48:30 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: PatrickHenry
What if gravity isn't weak or consistent?

Some of these theories suggest that gravity might attract a little harder than expected at large distances or small accelerations, so the concept of dark matter may not even be necessary.

12 posted on 09/27/2004 11:53:18 AM PDT by GOPJ (The effect of‘MSM bias’ is the Democratic party and the press sustain each other’s delusions. Steyn)
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To: PatrickHenry

Is it possible/likely that the acceleration towards the sun could have been the result of a prolonged encounter with an asteroid, whose orbit took it close enough to Pioneer to affect its path.


13 posted on 09/27/2004 11:53:27 AM PDT by GeraldP (Non-violence never solved anything.)
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To: PatrickHenry
OK ... first off, we've got a couple of authors whose main purpose would seem to be to garner funding for their pet mission. Then we have this:

Attempts to test the anomaly using other spacecraft such as Galileo and the Voyager probes have proved unsuccessful,

First off, let's be clear what these guys are talking about: the trajectory determination process has shown what appears to be an unexplained perturbation. Apparently the same perturbation has not been noted with Voyager.

Note that the data in question here are tracking data gathered using Very Long Baseline Interferometry.

While it's entirely possible that they're observing some real effect, the apparent lack of corroborating data for other deep space probes suggests to me that there's a subtle error somewhere in the ground system -- probably in the databases used for Pioneer trajectory processing.

It is not clear why the authors have tossed Galileo into this -- it was a Jupiter orbiter, far closer to the sun than the Pioneers and Voyagers, and its perturbation environment was much different. The effect, if real, is being detected outside the solar system.

My bet: it's something stupid and overlooked on the ground. It almost always is.

17 posted on 09/27/2004 11:58:02 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: PatrickHenry
Since 1998 astronomers have known that the space probes Pioneer 10 and Pioneer 11 are following trajectories that cannot be explained by conventional physics. Launched in 1972 and 1973, respectively, to explore the outer planets, the Pioneer craft are now at the edge of the solar system, with Pioneer 10 being some 86 astronomical units (about 13 billion kilometres) from the Sun. But they are not quite where they should be, based on the gravitational pull of the known bodies in the solar system.

The tragectories have been effected by cloaked Romulin vessels observing us from the edge of the solar system.

19 posted on 09/27/2004 12:01:02 PM PDT by spodefly (A bunny-slippered operative in the Vast Right-Wing Pajama Party.)
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To: PatrickHenry

25 posted on 09/27/2004 12:11:46 PM PDT by js1138 (Speedy architect of perfect labyrinths.)
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To: PatrickHenry
As I say on all of these threads, I think there is a conventional physics explanation for the anomaly.

For one thing, there almost can't be anything wrong with gravity. Any gravitational effect large enough to explain the anomaly would noticeably affect the ephemerises of the outer planets. Yes, it is mathematically possible to dream up some function whereby the probes are affected but Pluto and Neptune are not, but that's awfully contrived and poorly motivated.

My expectation is that the probes have acquired a significant electrical charge during their journey. This causes their trajectories to bend slightly as the probes pass through the sun's magnetic field (to say nothing of the local galactic magnetic field). This bending causes the probe to acquire a momentum component that is transverse to its direction of travel, but because its total momentum is roughly constant, its momentum along our line of sight (which is what the Doppler shift measures) is necessarily reduced. We have no way to measure the transverse momentum component.

If this idea has been rejected, I'd like to see a quantitative reason.

26 posted on 09/27/2004 12:21:43 PM PDT by Physicist
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To: PatrickHenry
They didn't mention it in the article, but I think the voyager spacecraft have exhibted similar characteristics. I recall reading another article about this, and they mentioned that one reason one can rule out outgassing from the craft is because it is not just one craft that appears to be slowing down in a manner not predicted by current theories, but is all of them. This would be rather a important fact IMnsHO if it is true.

Does anyone know if the Mariner craft have exhibted any unpredicted orbital deviations? I think the Mariner craft are still in orbit around the Sun between Earth and Venus if I remember it correctly. Looks like I get to dig around NASA's sites a bit this evening. :-)

33 posted on 09/27/2004 1:45:50 PM PDT by zeugma (Face it folks, the Great Experiment is over.)
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To: PatrickHenry
Klingon tractor beams.

-ccm

36 posted on 09/27/2004 4:41:34 PM PDT by ccmay
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To: FairOpinion

Those with poor reading comprehension should note that they've just replied to a two year old thread. So don't write in, okay? ;')

But to FairOpinion, here's not one but two 2004 topics, related to each other, and you can write me any time (':

Gravitational anomalies: An invisible hand?
From The Economist print edition | Aug 19th 2004
Posted on 08/21/2004 4:31:57 AM EDT by ScuzzyTerminator
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1196132/posts


47 posted on 06/25/2006 2:06:10 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Wednesday, June 21, 2006.)
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To: annie laurie; garbageseeker; Knitting A Conundrum

from 2004.


49 posted on 08/18/2006 8:46:09 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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50 posted on 08/18/2006 8:46:21 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Comet's course hints at mystery planet [ from 2001 ]
Govert Schilling | last updated February 5th, 2002 | Govert Schilling
Posted on 08/18/2006 5:36:59 PM EDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1686125/posts


51 posted on 10/20/2006 11:45:41 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Dhimmicrati delenda est! https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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