BUPERSMAN 3830300 modern day equivalent

Me | 10/13/04 | Me

[Oblongata]

I have mangaed to track down the euivalent of BUPERSMAN 3830300 mentioned in Kerry's so called discharge paper. Here is his discharge cover letter that's causing controversy:

http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/Honorable_Discharge_From_Reserve.pdf

BUPERSMAN 3830300 has a current equivalent called MILPERSMAN 1920-160. Here is the conversion table:

http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/upd_CD/BUPERS/MILPERS/CONVERSION%20CHARTS.PDF

MILPERSMAN 1920-160 contains no useful information in itself. It just points you to a new document called SECNAVINST 1920.6a. Here is SECNAVINST 1920.6a:

http://dont.stanford.edu/regulations/secnav.pdf

YOu can see that this is the relevant document. You can also see that it is long and very complicated. Hopefully someone can make some sense of it.

[Oblongata]

Here are clickable relevant links:

http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/Honorable_Discharge_From_Reserve.pdf

http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/upd_CD/BUPERS/MILPERS/CONVERSION%20CHARTS.PDF

http://dont.stanford.edu/regulations/secnav.pdf

[Oblongata]

Ping!

Maybe you or someone on your list can make sense of secnavinst 1920.6a.

I couldn't decipher most of the language, but I suspect someone with experience in these matters might be able to dig up a nugget.

[CaptainVictory]

Assuming this is really the successor reg (I don't doubt it, but I have to state my assumptions), here is a relevant provision (emphasis added). I don't know Navy regs very well; I'm an Air Force vet:

1.SHOW CAUSE AUTHORITY

a. Purpose

(1) The purpose of a Show Cause Authority is to review and evaluate the record of any regular commissioned officer other than a warrant officer, retired officer, or temporary limited duty officer) to determine whether the officers should be required because of substandard performance of duty, misconduct, professional or moral dereliction, or because their retention is not clearly consistent with the interest of national security, to show cause for their retention on active duty.

(2) The Show Cause Authority shall review and evaluate the records of officers referred under paragraph 2 of enclosure (4) or referred by the Secretary. In cases where processing is directed by the Secretary under paragraph 6c of enclosure (7), the Show Cause Authority shall direct that a Board of Inquiry be convened.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

Maybe you or someone on your list can make sense of secnavinst 1920.6a.

Oblongata

[ScaniaBoy]

SECNAVINST 1920.6A
20 NOV 1983

Policy governing involuntary separation

[SNIP]

a. Substandard Performance of Duty: Inability of an officer to maintain adequate levels of performance or conduct as evidenced by one or more of the following reasons:

(1) Failure to demonstrate acceptable qualities of leadership
required of an officer in the member's grade.

etc ,etc


One wonders what the SwiftVets have in store!

[PeaRidge]

I saw your post and your name. It reminded me of my first car, a Guantanamo Oblongata, known also as a GTO.

[Americanwolf]

I cannot get it here at work because the don't have adobe and they will not let us download it. is there a web page that has the secnav instruction? or I will give it a look when I get home.

[bkwells]

It's now 1920.6b and try This Link

What exactly are you looking for?

[King Prout]

not a squiddie, but looking forward to this becoming clear.

[savedbygrace]

This story keeps getting more and more interesting.

It sounds very much like Lipscomb got it right with his report this morning.

[CaptainVictory]

Here's another nugget right up front. As I mentioned in an earlier post today, if the BUPERSMAN 3830360 is anything like this reg, it tells me Kerry may have been recommended for an unfavorable involuntary administrative separation (not a court-martial, which we'd have known about it any event). It could then have been tied up in the Navy beauracracy for many years until a Board of Officers heard the case and it was finally acted on by a Navy Secretary who answered to Jimmy Carter. Here's the snip:

Under the authority of references (a) and (b), this instruction provides for the revocation of commissions, discharge, termination of appointments, release from active duty, retirement for length of service, and dropping from the rolls of Navy and Marine Corps officers. The policies, reasons for separation, and provisions for characterization of service set forth in this instruction apply to all officers and warrant officers of the Regular and Reserve components of the Navy and Marine Corps.

b. This instruction does not apply to discharge or dismissal by reason of court-martial sentence under reference (a), or discharge or retirement for physical disability under reference (c).

[UsnDadof8]

The relevant instruction is the one effective at the time of his discharge. The secnavinst is dated 1983 and was not effective at that time. In any case, all it is, is an instruction pertaining to the discharge of officers.

[Chieftain]

It reminded me of my first car, a Guantanamo Oblongata, known also as a GTO.

Lemme get you straight in that name, my FRiend. It's Gran Turismo Omolongato or 'goat'!

[kinsman redeemer]

watching and waiting BUMP

[Americanwolf]

From what I can tell it is the instructs for Admin sep of Officers (DUH its in the title.)

But that would lead me to believe that with in there are the different situations that admin seps are done. that means that he probably left under less the honorable terms. or due to an issue with paperwork. In other words if he was administartively seperated. He was release for reason other then satisfactory completion of his enlistment commitment.

[stockpirate]

Looks like we are dealing with a court martial.


Item (a) Title 10, Section 1162 leads you to 12681:

”Subject to other provisions of this title, reserve commissioned officers may be discharged at the pleasure of the President. Other Reserves may be discharged under regulations prescribed by the Secretary concerned.”

And to 12682:

“Under regulations to be prescribed by the Secretary of Defense, a Reserve who becomes a regular or ordained minister of religion is entitled upon his request to a discharge from his reserve enlistment or appointment.”

Item (b) Title 10, Section 1163 leads to 12683:

“(a) An officer of a reserve component who has at least five years of service as a commissioned officer may not be separated from that component without his consent except—
(1) under an approved recommendation of a board of officers convened by an authority designated by the Secretary concerned; or
(2) by the approved sentence of a court-martial.
(b) Subsection (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(1) A separation under section 12684, 14901, or 14907 of this title.
(2) A dismissal under section 1161 (a) of this title.
(3) A transfer under section 12213, 12214, 14514, or 14515 of this title.
(4) A separation of an officer who is in an inactive status in the Standby Reserve and who is not qualified for transfer to the Retired Reserve or is qualified for transfer to the Retired Reserve and does not apply for such a transfer.”


And to 12686:

“(a) Limitation.— Under regulations to be prescribed by the Secretary concerned, which shall be as uniform as practicable, a member of a reserve component who is on active duty (other than for training) and is within two years of becoming eligible for retired pay or retainer pay under a purely military retirement system, may not be involuntarily released from that duty before he becomes eligible for that pay, unless the release is approved by the Secretary.
(b) Waiver.— With respect to a member of a reserve component who is to be ordered to active duty (other than for training) under section 12301 of this title pursuant to an order to active duty that specifies a period of less than 180 days and who (but for this subsection) would be covered by subsection (a), the Secretary concerned may require, as a condition of such order to active duty, that the member waive the applicability of subsection (a) to the member for the period of active duty covered by that order. In carrying out this subsection, the Secretary concerned may require that a waiver under the preceding sentence be executed before the period of active duty begins.”

We are getting into the area of Courts Martial.

[CaptainVictory]

I guarantee we're not dealing with a court-martial. They are a matter of public record. We would already know.

We are dealing with an administrative separation, or as the Squids call them, an ad-sep.

[Soaring Feather]

bump

[Oblongata]

"We are dealing with an administrative separation, or as the Squids call them, an ad-sep."

So that just means he was kicked out right? Involuntary separation? He never formally resigned his commision?