Posted on 10/16/2004 11:59:24 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
San Diego May Be Home To Swedish Gotland Class Submarine And Crew
Navy looking for extra-quiet vessel By James W. Crawley
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER October 14, 2004
Sometime next year, San Diego may become a far-flung submarine base for ... Sweden?
The U.S. Navy, searching for an ultra-quiet sub for anti-submarine warfare training, has asked the Swedish government to send one for an extended deployment that could last several years.
"The Swedish navy is considering the U.S. Navy's request for a submarine asset," said spokeswoman Lt. Pauline Pimentel. "Both navies are looking forward to a decision in the upcoming months."
If approved, the Swedes would deploy a Gotland-class submarine and its crew of 23 to San Diego.
The newly created Fleet Anti-Submarine Warfare Command, based here, would use the foreign sub to train warships and sonar crews to locate and track non-nuclear submarines used by many nations.
The Navy is trying to improve its anti-submarine tactics because many naval planners anticipate future battles will be in shallow, constricted off-shore littoral waters where small, quiet submarines might lurk.
The U.S. Navy's ability to locate enemy submarines has atrophied since the Cold War ended, said A.D. Baker, a noted international naval expert.
"We've badly neglected (anti-submarine warfare)," he said.
And, Baker added, the newest non-nuclear submarines being built are very difficult to locate under the best of conditions.
The Swedish sub uses an innovative air-independent propulsion system. Unlike conventional diesel-electric submarines used by many navies, the Gotland sub can operate for weeks without surfacing or sticking a snorkel above the sea surface for air.
That need for air to operate diesel generators that recharge the batteries used to operate a sub's electric motors is the Achilles' heel for most conventional subs.
While it doesn't have the range or endurance of an American nuclear-powered submarine, the Swedish sub is extremely quiet. The Sterling engine onboard produces about the same amount of noise as a kitchen blender. That noise is further muffled by sound insulation.
One submarine expert said the Swedish sub is so quiet that U.S. sonar may have trouble locating it.
"It's a very good submarine," said Baker. "Unless we enhance the (Gotland's) acoustic signature, we won't find it."
During sonar training with other navies' diesel submarines, a noisemaker or pinger is often installed to increase the sub's noise level so that U.S. warships and submarines can find the quieter vessels, Baker said.
"We're never going to know it's there . . . without popping on a little noisemaker," Baker said.
The 195-foot-long submarine would be carried here piggyback aboard a heavy-lift ship. The U.S. Navy would pay for transportation and the sub's operating expenses while here, one Navy official said.
No cost estimates were available from Pentagon officials, who spoke mostly on background because the deal has not been finalized.
The Navy currently has only one non-nuclear submarine, the Dolphin.
The diesel sub, which is used for research and development, is based at the Submarine Base at Point Loma. The 35-year-old Dolphin was severely damaged in May 2002 when it nearly sank in rough seas off San Diego during a torpedo testing exercise.
Forty-three sailors and civilians abandoned ship and were rescued by a nearby research vessel and a Coast Guard helicopter.
Because of its short endurance and age, Navy officials said, the Dolphin would not be a realistic substitute for modern subs.
Using a Swedish submarine for extensive training would be a first for the U.S. Navy and would showcase an alternative to traditional American naval culture.
While the U.S. submarine force is all-male, several Swedish subs have female personnel, Baker said. While women have been crew members on U.S. surface ships for a decade, federal law bans them from serving on submarine crews.
"The Americans are going to die because of the women on board," Baker quipped.
I live a few miles down the road from the sub base. Nice!
It was a LONG time ago (1972) but we played war games with an aircraft carrier fleet. Our nuclear sub was restricted to a 3-D box and the carrier never had a chance even with planes and helocoptors dropping sonar bouys. Not only did we get inside their escort, we fired a flare over the carriers bow, went under them and disappeard.
Das Boot.
Good for us, and Sweden.
I think Sweden has excellent engineering, due to having two car companies and only nine million citizens.
Volvo and Saab. Seems these days, their new owners Ford and GM respectively are basing several of their new lines from the Swedish designs.
So all the US Navy has to do to track this sub is re-tune their sonar gear to the sounds of human copulation.
Why? Is he suggesting American servicemen are going to contract AIDS during port-of-call liaisons with the female Swedish sailors?
Oh, I get it: he's being politically "correct". Blah!
BTTT
Playing with a carrier esp a US one will only be of academic help as no nation then or today(barring a few like France,Britain,India) use carriers & those are 1/3 the size of a CVN. An AIP equipped D/E sub is pretty new as far most navies are concerned.What makes this technology a potential headache is that this is available in modular form & can be retrofitted onto pretty much any type of sub,even older boats.For eg the French MESMA & German fuel cells can be fitted on Type-209 class subs or even Russian Kilo class boats.Hence the possibility of folks like China getting it is very real-Pakistan already uses the MESMA on it's 2 Agosta-90B class D/Es.
Then why are they getting a Swedish sub if it will be of no academic help?
Did the Australian boat which whipped the Americans a few years ago use AIP, or was it a conventional D/E?
no >> only
Nope,the Collins don't yet have an AIP.The Collins is actually a Swedish design ,built under license in Australia.It is likely it will be fitted with the Sterling in the future.
Actually my first statement was meant for the user'wildturkey' who was talking about how the sub on which he served engaged in training with a US sub-NOW that's an academic exercise for most purposes.I never meant that an exercise with Swedish boat was meaningless-on the contrary, will give the USN lots of practical help wrt to future "friends" like the Pakis & Chinese who have or are either trying to get AIP systems.Sorry if you got confused by my reply to him.
Read you post, who it was posted to and then go back and read my post. I think you missed your cup of coffee this morning.
It is common courtesy to ping another when you refer to them in your post.
+m
Err sorry,I got my cousin to type the replying part & he was busy chatting to God knows whom!!!so he didn't notice the sender's name.
Sorry, only a very few females aboard Swedish subs. Mostly v skilled specialists such as sonar operators.
Impressed with the general knowledge re subs and specially AIP subs on this thread.
The Gotland class has been operational for several years, and I think most of the original problems have been ironed out now.
The older Västergötland class subs are being retrofitted with Stirling (sic!) engines.
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