Posted on 12/20/2004 7:58:13 AM PST by SmithL
The land under Robert Mathews' house in the Berkeley hills has slid about 20 feet since the structure was built in 1916. But property lines do not move, which means that today half of his house seems to sit on his neighbor's land.
"I figure the property line runs right through the middle of the front doorway,'' he said.
Three major landslides in Berkeley and neighboring Kensington are creating a dilemma for residents who, like Mathews, live in the well-populated neighborhoods.
When a home, or a driveway or a deck, slips onto a neighbor's land, does it become the neighbor's property?
Public officials in the East Bay have tried to stay out of the disputes, some of which have landed in court, but experts say they are likely to face increasing pressure to decide whether property lines should be redrawn when the stuff inside them moves.
(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...
I have half a mind to make a perimiter of my property in pvc and drag that over to Malibu (sarcasm)
The original property footprint didn't change. Just bore some hoarkin' big piles, anchor that footprint and move the structures back!
Simply make sure your foundation goes deep enough, and is strong enough, to resist movement..
Build your house upon the rock, and not the shifting sands..
"Simply make sure your foundation goes deep enough, and is strong enough, to resist movement..
Build your house upon the rock, and not the shifting sands.."
That won't work in this situation. The whole side of the hill is shifting. The only solution is not to build on California hillsides like this one. They will slide eventually, and it doesn't really matter how deep your foundation is.
Rich folks want to live on the hill. With that desire should come the responsibility of knowing that your hillside home is not going to be stationary forever.
What do you do when it's the rock itself that is doing the moving? Do property lines rest on landmarks, such as the benchmarks seen on many street corners, or global coordinates?
There are properties around California crossed by active fault lines whose bedrock is moving in different directions. Some of the older properties have chunks that have moved 10 or 20 feet over the past century.
In southern California there's the famous case of the California State University at San Bernadino's gym. One side's creeping in one direction and the other side of the gym has creeped the other way. And my favorite San Bernadino example is the major freeway interchange built over a very large creek bed, and condos have been built in the old creek bed also. It's all in the middle of part of the San Andreas fault zone (there are several branches), but what the hell, it's California real estate!:)
Just you try and tell me this isn't ALL BUSH'S FAULT. (First pun of the new week Folks!)
I guess that's what happens when you build a house on a mud slide.
First of all, I wouldn't buy property without a full and concise report on the land itself..
If it's built on a fault line and I know it, and I buy it, it's my fault..
If it's built across a fault line and I know it, it's not only my fault, I'm stupid..
I can just sit there on what's left of my porch and watch my land leave in two different directions..
However, according to the article, that's not the problem in the area they're reporting on ..
It's the topsoil shifting..
The article points out that some residents have resorted to "deep and massive" foundations..
They have dug down to the bedrock, and then installed massive steel re-inforced concrete pylons to anchor their homes into place..
Something really, Really big is going to happen before those homes shift again..
But they will probably continue to be plagued by broken and twisted water and sewer lines, broken sidewalks, etc..
As for the rest, it will require legislation by the State to determine how property disputes will be handled..
The State congress makes the law.. call your representative..
10 or 20 feet over the past century?
I would just require the property lines be surveyed and redrawn every say, 20 years, minimum..
Yes - after all, land is only land, but the "house" is for eternity.
Bezerkeley's Memorial Stadium (where Cal plays) has the Hayward fault running under both goalposts!
If you go up in the end zones, you can see where they patched the shifting areas. It's several inches since the stadium was built a long time ago.
"Rich folks want to live on the hill" - This gives new meaning to the "mobile home" concept, I guess. But how do these rich folks distinguish between their "mobile homes" and the ones they call "trailers"? Maybe they don't need foundations after all - maybe they need wheels on their houses so they can put them back where they belong after the hill moves.
Whole towns have changed state when the River changed its course!
Hey, CA isn't the only place in the world with such problems, ya know..
Here in MO, we have the New Madrid Fault...
And here on the other side of the state, (Kansas City) we have had instances of houses destroyed in landslides..
Considering the location being discussed, ( CA ) major consideration concerning earthquake, landslide, flooding and fire should all be taken into consideration when purchasing property..
Personally, I would just move somewhere safer, like Tornado Alley.. or Hurricane Alley..
Rule #2: Somewhere there is a primary marker, and that takes precedence over any and all secondary markers such as property corners.
Rule #3: Elision, erosion, accretion, adverse possession, and prescription have ample caselaw history and can sufficiently cover slumping land questions. It all ends up in court if anybody wants to dispute; otherwise the local platting authority, your surveyors, and your neighbors can resolve the situation without lawyers.
Umm... Either I'm a bit slow this morning, or you didn't really include a pun in there anywhere.
How about never? Surveyors have enough to do without being dragged around to reset 25 corners every day forever.
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