Amal Garrus, the mother, opened the door, and the alleged attackers forced their way in, and tied up the mother and the two daughters. They were held for two hours while McDonald and Sanchez waited for the father, Hossam Armanious, to come home.
Posted on 03/05/2005 12:54:50 PM PST by Selkie
By ANTHONY RAMIREZ
Published: March 5, 2005
or Egyptian-Americans in New Jersey, the nightmare seemed to come true in January. A Christian family of four was found slaughtered in their Jersey City home. It was rumored that the father had exchanged angry words with a Muslim on the Internet.
Egyptian Muslims and Egyptian Coptic Christians are at brutal odds with each other in their homeland, but those who had immigrated to the United States had nonetheless managed to live peacefully.
Now they seemed as if they could be headed toward a Muslim-Christian face-off..
Yesterday, two suspects, both of them non-Egyptian and non-Muslim, were charged with murder: an upstairs neighbor, Edward McDonald, and his friend, Hamilton Sanchez. The two men pleaded not guilty in the deaths of Hossam Armanious, his wife and their two school-age children.
Coptic Christians and Muslims alike expressed relief yesterday, but suspicions linger. Fred Ayad, 69, a former deputy mayor of Jersey City, expressed a sense of relief that many Copts were feeling.
"Thank God, it's not a religious matter," he said, biting his words. "If they had been Egyptian or Muslim, we would have had -- "
He searched for a word, adding, "We would have had problems."
Muslims shared the relief. Ahmed Moustafa, 64, when told by an Arabic-speaking reporter about the arrests, shouted in Arabic to other Muslims in his office: "He's American! He's not a Muslim!"
But asked if this development would improve relations between Copts and Muslims, Mr. Moustafa, a notary public, turned derisive, asking, "Do you think this will clean our image with them and other Americans?"
The Armanious family belonged to the Coptic Orthodox Church, the principal Christian church in Egypt. The Copts date their feud with the Muslims back to the seventh century and the rise of Islam.
Mr. Ayad, the former deputy mayor, estimated that fewer than 2,000 Coptic Christians lived in Jersey City when he arrived there 34 years ago. Now there are 17,000, with 60,000 statewide, he said.
While Coptic Christians probably outnumber Egyptian Muslims in the state, they retain resentments from their homeland, according to Dr. Monir Dawoud, 65, a surgeon and the acting president of the American Coptic Association. "We came with an inferiority complex from Egypt, where we were treated as second-class citizens," he said. After the murder of the Armanious family, he said, "people were really emotionally very hot."
Mr. Armanious, whose chat room name was I Love Jesus, was said to have been threatened with death by someone in an Internet chat room during an argument about Christianity and Islam.
Despite the arrests, some Coptic Christians in Jersey City remained unwilling to let go of their suspicions that a Muslim was involved in the killings. Marcos Nashaat, 50, a bodega owner, said "it doesn't make sense" for a Christian to be the killer. "Why would he kill them when he can make a robbery of any store without killing?"
Such sentiments trouble Sheik Tarek Youssof Saleh, 42, a Muslim cleric who was vilified when he offered condolences at the funeral of the Armanious family. "I tried to go to the funeral to show support, and they called me killer and animal and terrorist," he said, referring to Copts in the crowd.
But he added, "Most Christians, they are good."
Still, Sheik Saleh, imam of the Oulel Albab Mosque in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, singled out the American Coptic Association for criticism, saying the group should apologize for berating Muslims.
Dr. Dawoud of the Coptic organization bridled at that suggestion.
"No!" he said. "You don't apologize to terrorists. Muslims should not feel this way. Why should they want an apology? The majority of Muslims are not terrorists and should not feel insulted."
Bishop David, 37, leader of the Coptic churches of the Northeast, speaks carefully when describing his reaction to the arrest of the suspects and the heated exchanges between Copts and Muslims.
"There's been a little bit of history between our two groups," he said.
"People were under a lot of confusion, and when a person is under that confusion they sometimes say things --" Bishop David did not finish his sentence.
"But our religion teaches us to love our --"
Again he did not finish the sentence.
Jason George contributed reporting from Jersey City for this article
Ping
And there folks is the rub, they're muslims, not Americans and will continue to see themselves as such. Besides, I still have my reservations that the NJC police could have railroaded someone to avoid the truth.
Yep keen observation.
Amal Garrus, the mother, opened the door, and the alleged attackers forced their way in, and tied up the mother and the two daughters. They were held for two hours while McDonald and Sanchez waited for the father, Hossam Armanious, to come home.
Would someone explain to me why robbers caught in the act, not having intended to kill their victims, then engage in what can only be called a ritual marking of their victims? Is this the old "oh-shoot-they-see-us-let's-carve-up-their bodies" defense?
In court, Sanchez was very remorseful, and emotional. And, as he walked past the victims' families, he said "I didn't kill nobody."
Yeah what if someone pitched this as a plot for a crime drama ?
Would it seem plausible ?
A telling quote there.
There are many American Muslims. Apparently they do not consider these people true Muslims?
Please keep me posted on this trial, something ain't right here, but I can't get a feel yet for what is bugging me. Certainly is a strange tragic crime.
Ping new thread.
Please keep me posted on this trial, something ain't right here, but I can't get a feel yet for what is bugging me. Certainly is a strange tragic crime.>>>
Will do.
Let's see what the two arrested guys have to say. Even if they did it, maybe someone else had them do it. I'm afraid that whatever the whole story is, we'll never hear all of it. There might be 'problems'.
Hubby had a good angle on this, he thinks maybe the robbers were trying to make it look like a ritualistic crime.
I think they've got the right guys. The Spanish guy might have been bawling because only the neighbor (actually he was their tenant, I think) did the killings.
They didn't go in intending to kill the family, but evidently the younger girl got free and saw the guy from upstairs, then I guess they panicked and killed them all. For a big take of $3000.00.
He might be bugged that the DA is telling a tale of what happened when as seen by the murdered, and is dancing around honest and reasonable questions as to motives.
BTW, is it curious that McDonald and Sanchez both requested to be placed under "Protective Custody" ?
Hubby had a good angle on this, he thinks maybe the robbers were trying to make it look like a ritualistic crime. >>>
Does he still think that ?
These guys are barely educated, do you honestly think they're intelligent enough to concoct such a scheme ?
Honestly......
based on what little I know, it seems to me that murder was intended from the start. Therefore I ain't buying the robery motive just yet, but I will wait, I could be mistaken.
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