Illegals flow into Arizona like water through a broken dam

Manchester Union Leader ^ | May 7, 2005 | Renee Downing

[Dane]

If you can find a moment between your flame bytes, perhaps you could elucidate your immigration reform plan, that constitutes "real" reform. Just a thought

Sure, have stated it a many of times. A documented guest worker program where the non-citizen is not eligible for either welfare or voting benefits.

If they wish to become a citizen they go to the back of the line.

[Torie]

Thanks. In the Dane plan, can anybody get documented who is not a felon, or just some, can those here get documented, or do they have to decamp, and when documented, can they stay until they die, or is the term somewhat less than a life estate?

[Dane]

Thanks. In the Dane plan, can anybody get documented who is not a felon, or just some, can those here get documented, or do they have to decamp, and when documented, can they stay until they die, or is the term somewhat less than a life estate?

Basically it is an outline, and to answer the last question first, no they can't stay until they die. Also any person here who does not have the documentation is immediately deported, yes people already here can apply, but that is carrot and stick approach to weed out the generally honest people who want to do honest work, from thos who are here for more nefarious reasons.

[Torie]

Splendid. We are making progress. Now how long can they stay, and when must they leave? As you know, where the rubber meets the road in this debate, is allowing existing illegals to get documented, and then stay forever, with the natural momentum of course in time leading to citizenship. Also, I am still not sure what the filter is on who gets documented in the Dane plan. Is it anybody who applies who has a job offer and is not a felon (here or not already), or is it more selective?

[Dane]

Generally say for 3 years. Like I said they would not be entitiled to welfare or voting rights and if they want to apply for permanent residency/citizenship they must go back to their home country and get in the back of the line.

JMO, it brings sanity to a system that has been out of whack since LBJ dismantled the bracero program 40 years ago.

[Dane]

Also those already here would have to a pay a fine.

[Torie]

Well I think we generally agree on much in theory on a program. Where we disagree, is what I think existing illegals should decamp to cleanse their illegality to get papers. It is also essential that the jobs they take are offered at the prevailing wage. Otherwise, the wage pressure on unskilled jobs will continue apace, leading to more social problems, and more agitation of income supplements. What do you think about the Torie "friendly" amendments to the Dane proposal?

[Dane]

There already here, weed out those who really want to do honest work and make themn pay a fine, as for your prevailing wage thingy. I'm not a big fan of any govt. interference in the market, be they price controls, floors, ceilings, etc.etc.

Honest and good business is what makes American prosper, not intrusive govt. economic regulations.

[Torie]

Well that is the Achilles heel in the Dane plan. Some jobs will be forced down to the minimum wage, and of course the kids need to be educated, the family medicated, and so it goes. I won't be hurt. I'm a lawyer. We protect ourselves. But the Walmart shoppers demographic will be.

[Dane]

I won't be hurt. I'm a lawyer. We protect ourselves

Not if real tort reform ever gets through, which I'm all for.

Also a growing economy rises all boats, intrusive govt. regulations sinks them.

[Inyo-Mono]

The current situation is not a wave but an ongoing and increasing flood. Instead of ghettos forming for a generation or two and then dissolving, they now get constant reinforcements and harden into Third World barrios.

And unlike the previous waves of Irish and Italians who stayed in inner city ghettos, these Mexican immigrants are spreading their ghettos and ghetto crime to every corner of the country, even rural small towns way out in the country.

[Torie]

Do you live in Inyo or Mono Counties? I ask because my brother lives almost on the county line.

[Inyo-Mono]

Does he live in Chalfant Valley or Swall Meadows? I live just south of the line in Inyo County.

[Torie]

Rovana.

[McGavin999]

I suggest we start buying one way tickets for Washington DC and handing them out as the people cross the border.

[Know your rights]

Now, THAT'S a good post! I'd be surprised if Dane has anything substantive to say in reply

Oh you mean like ICO's reply #62

No, not like that. So far, you're bearing out my prediciton.

[Know your rights]

this nation was built by immigrants.

LEGAL immigrants who did NOT suck at the welfare state teat.

[Know your rights]

The iron curtain.

Can you not see the difference between a wall that keeps citizens in and a wall that keeps noncitizens out?

[Dane]

LEGAL immigrants who did NOT suck at the welfare state teat.

And you can thank LBJ for the current situation.

[Dane]

Can you not see the difference between a wall that keeps citizens in and a wall that keeps noncitizens out?

Yeah walls with mines and sharpshooters are great aren't they. Ask those who suffered under the iron curtain and the North Koreans who think that maple bark is a treat for dinner.