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Does China pose a territorial threat to Russia?
rian.ru ^ | 1/07/2005 | RIA Novosti

Posted on 07/01/2005 7:46:08 AM PDT by Destro

Does China pose a territorial threat to Russia?

1/07/2005

MOSCOW, July 1 (RIA Novosti) - The Chinese are already settling in large numbers in Siberia and Russia's Far East, and some experts do not rule out that sooner or later there will be no Russians left in these areas. Izevstia, a respected daily, invited experts and politicians to comment on the issue.

Sergei Darkin, the governor of the Far Eastern region of the Maritime territory: This is an invented problem. China is our neighbor and important strategic partner. The Maritime territory accounts for 10% of Russia's trade with China and we are working proactively to increase it. The sides are taking measures to develop free, visa-free border trade. Indeed, 140 million people live in China's two border provinces, whereas 2 million live in the Maritime territory. However, the situation is completely under control and there is no threat to these areas. About 140,000 Chinese tourists come to us every year and another 10,000 people arrive in search of jobs.

Professor Fyodor Shelov-Kovedyayev of the Higher School of Economics: China undoubtedly represents a serious challenge not only to Russia but also to the whole of Euro-Atlantic civilization. Although China does not declare this, it still believes in the idea of the Celestial Empire, which has a mandate from the heavens to rule the world. When it has become strong enough, this formula will be presented to everyone. China only pretends to be a pragmatic project pursuing Western modernization. There are hundreds of millions of Chinese emigrants doing business across the world and are loyal only to China. Sooner or later China will need control over Russia's resources.

Boris Reznik, a deputy of the State Duma (lower house of parliament) from the Far Eastern Khabarovsk territory: China does not yet pose a direct threat to us, but its creeping expansion is a reality. The Russian Far East is practically unsettled by anyone: before 1995 there were about 7 million residents in 13 Federation subjects. About 1.2 million have left over the past decade. More and more Chinese are coming to these areas. They settle, take over the food and clothes markets, and open restaurants. There are more Chinese traders than Russians. Armed threats are not the only way: if we do not pay more attention to developing the Russian Far East, the Chinese will settle there forever.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: china; chna; siberia
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1 posted on 07/01/2005 7:46:08 AM PDT by Destro
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To: Destro
Answer to the title is yes.

Historically, China has a better claim on these Russian regions than to their other claims such as Taiwan and all the islands and huge swaths of water they claim.

2 posted on 07/01/2005 7:48:23 AM PDT by tallhappy (Juntos Podemos!)
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To: tallhappy

Yep, especially when you consider how much the USSR/Russians took from the nationalist government in China in the 1920's.


3 posted on 07/01/2005 7:50:25 AM PDT by pganini
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To: Destro
Professor Fyodor Shelov-Kovedyayev of the Higher School of Economics: China undoubtedly represents a serious challenge not only to Russia but also to the whole of Euro-Atlantic civilization. Although China does not declare this, it still believes in the idea of the Celestial Empire, which has a mandate from the heavens to rule the world. When it has become strong enough, this formula will be presented to everyone. China only pretends to be a pragmatic project pursuing Western modernization. There are hundreds of millions of Chinese emigrants doing business across the world and are loyal only to China. Sooner or later China will need control over Russia's resources.

This is the Chinese communist attitude. They are the emperors of the middle kingdom and we have taken their rightful place from them.

4 posted on 07/01/2005 7:50:43 AM PDT by tallhappy (Juntos Podemos!)
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To: tallhappy; pganini

While that might be true for slives of border regions your overall history is incorrect - the historic Chinese claims do not reach way into Siberia - hint - Great Wall of China.


5 posted on 07/01/2005 7:59:12 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: tallhappy

Does it really matter that much? The area could be considered valuable for its natural resources, not as a lebensraum for settlement [due to the climate]. Were it otherwise, it would have been much more densely settled long time ago. Because of the time frame involved in Chinese penetration, by the time it becomes really acute these resources would be either exhausted or on their way to exhaustion, thus lowering the area value dramatically.


6 posted on 07/01/2005 8:01:51 AM PDT by GSlob
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To: tallhappy
How Communist are the Chinese? I don't see them redistributing wealth or helping their poor with welfare. Sounds like the Communist Chinese are leaving Marx behind in favor of Confucius and reverting to nationalism.

Which sucks because so many folks have gotten used to saying the cool sounding "Chicoms" as a descriptor.

"Chinats" does not have the same ring.

7 posted on 07/01/2005 8:02:36 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: Destro
"Chinats" does not have the same ring.

I don't call China a communist country anymore. They are still socialist (leftwing) but are tending more to classical fascism with the extreme nationalism and expansionist aims. Don't have a cool moniker for that yet however.

8 posted on 07/01/2005 8:23:23 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum

I agree. China has become what political scientists term a "corporatist" nation.


9 posted on 07/01/2005 8:43:22 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: Destro
the situation is completely under control and there is no threat to these areas

Baghdad Bob has competition.

10 posted on 07/01/2005 8:45:03 AM PDT by RightWhale (withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty)
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To: Destro

However, the manchurians that took control of China (and hence, the last government before the nationalist/communist) DO control large part of Siberia. Same goes for other dynasties like Yuan (mongolians).

I'd agree with you that from a pure classical sense, China probably more claims to Xinjiang province (which part of it at least was controlled as early as Han dynasty, 200 BC) than Siberia.


11 posted on 07/01/2005 8:47:07 AM PDT by pganini
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To: Destro
China has become what political scientists term a "corporatist" nation.

So is the US. The UN is exactly this. Aristotle didn't think of this form of the State. The 4th form.

12 posted on 07/01/2005 8:47:34 AM PDT by RightWhale (withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty)
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To: Destro

In light of the recent border settlement, I would guess that this is not likely to be a problem for many years.


13 posted on 07/01/2005 8:49:56 AM PDT by snowsislander
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To: pganini

Of course Manchurians and Mongols are not Chinese and Russia controls very little of classical Manchuria.


14 posted on 07/01/2005 8:50:27 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: RightWhale
So is the US.

After the Supreme Court ruled that your property can be taken by the state for private business interests I have to agree with you that America has also become a corporatist state.

15 posted on 07/01/2005 9:01:03 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: Destro

Let Putin borrow a copy of The Bear and The Dragon. Hey Vlad. I'm only letting you borrow it!

Vlad also sold the Chinese a Typhoon Class submarine. What stupidity!


16 posted on 07/01/2005 9:03:49 AM PDT by massgopguy (massgopguy)
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To: Destro

Can we encourage Russia to accept Mexican immigrants?


17 posted on 07/01/2005 9:08:43 AM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: massgopguy
Not really - the Chinese need Russia to supply their weapons for the time being - if they go to war with Russia they lose their supplier.

Also Russia fears European and American efforts to break Russia apart from the West.

Some Russians may think China is the less dragon like of than the Americans and Europeans. Round Eyes speak with forked tongue.

18 posted on 07/01/2005 9:09:09 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: FreedomCalls
Actually, for hundreds of years the Chinese have been migrant workers all over Asia and the Pacific coast (and hated for being industrious like the Jews were hated in Europe). The Chinese populations have a history of keeping to themselves - not causing problems nor claiming the territory they migrated to should be autonomous or part of China.
19 posted on 07/01/2005 9:12:51 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: Destro
The Chinese populations have a history of keeping to themselves - not causing problems nor claiming the territory they migrated to should be autonomous or part of China.

The Tibetans might argue with you on that.

20 posted on 07/01/2005 9:42:59 AM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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