Posted on 07/18/2005 4:49:07 PM PDT by CHARLITE
I was surprised last week to learn how easily some Westerners believe terrorism can be explained. The realization unfolded as I looked into the sad face of a student at Oxford University. After giving a speech about Islam, I met this young magazine editor to talk about Islam's lost tradition of critical thinking and reasoned debate. But we never got to that topic. Instead, we got stuck on the July 7 bombings in London and what might have compelled four young, British-raised, observant Muslim men to blow themselves up while taking innocent others with them.
She emphasized their "relative economic deprivation." I answered that the lads had immigrant parents who had worked hard to make something of themselves. I reminded her that several of the 9/11 hijackers came from wealthy families, and it's not as if they left the boys out of the will. Finally, I told her about my conversation three years ago with the political leader of Islamic Jihad in Gaza. "What's the difference between suicide, which the Koran condemns, and martyrdom?" I asked. "Suicide," he replied, "is done out of despair. But remember: most of our martyrs today were very successful in their earthly lives." In short, there was a future to live for--and they detonated it anyway.
By this time, the Oxford student had grown somber. It was clear I had let her down. I had failed to appreciate that the London bombers were victims of British society. To be fair to her, she is right that marginalization, real or perceived, diminishes self-esteem. Which, in turn, can make young people vulnerable to those peddling a radical message of instant belonging. But suppose the messages being peddled are marinated in religious rhetoric. Then wouldn't you say religion plays some role in motivating these atrocities?
The student shifted uncomfortably. She just couldn't bring herself to examine my suggestion seriously. And I suppose I couldn't expect her to. Not when Muslim leaders themselves won't go there. Iqbal Sacranie, secretary-general for the Muslim Council of Britain, is an example. In the midst of a debate with me, he listed potential incentives to bomb, including "alienation" and "segregation." But Islam? God forbid that the possibility even be entertained.
That is the dangerous denial from which mainstream Muslims need to emerge. While our spokesmen assure us that Islam is an innocent bystander in today's terrorism, those who commit terrorist acts often tell us otherwise.
Mohammed Atta, ringleader of the Sept. 11 hijackers, left behind a note asserting that "it is enough for us to know that the Koran's verses are the words of the Creator of the Earth and all the planets." Atta highlighted the Koran's description of heaven. In 2004 the executioners of Nick Berg, an American contractor in Iraq, alluded on tape to a different Koranic passage: "Whoever kills a human being, except as punishment for murder or other villainy in the land, shall be regarded as having killed all mankind."
The spirit of that verse forbids aggressive warfare, but the clause beginning with except is readily deployed by militant Muslims as a loophole. If you want murder and villainy in the land, they say, look no further than U.S. bootprints in Arab soil.
For too long, we Muslims have been sticking fingers in our ears and chanting "Islam means peace" to drown out the negative noise from our holy book. Far better to own up to it. Not erase or revise, just recognize it and thereby join moderate Jews and Christians in confessing "sins of Scripture," as an American bishop says about the Bible. In doing so, Muslims would show a thoughtful side that builds trust with the wider communities of the West.
We could then cultivate the support to inspire cross-cultural understanding. For instance, schools throughout the West should teach how Islamic civilization helped give birth to the European Renaissance. Some of the first universities in recorded history sprang up in 3rd century Iran, 9th century Baghdad and 10th century Cairo. The Muslim world gave us mocha coffee, the guitar and even the Spanish expression olé! (which has its root in the Arabic word Allah).
Muslim students would learn there is no shame in defending the values of pluralism. Non-Muslim students would learn that those values took great inspiration from Islamic culture. All would learn that Islam and the West are more interdependent than divided.
Still, as long as Muslims live in pretense, we will be affirming that we have something to hide. It's not enough for us to protest that radicals are exploiting Islam as a sword. Of course they are. Now, moderate Muslims must stop exploiting Islam as a shield--one that protects us from authentic introspection and our neighbors from genuine understanding.
"MIGHT BE?!"
Char :)
What is interesting about this article is the implicit admission by a 'moderate' muslim that, as written, the Koran is the bloody source of Islamic terrorism. He admits that by arguing that moderate Muslims have to learn to reject parts of the Koran as the 'sin of scripture.'
The author better watch out...he's going to get "Van Gogh-ed" for saying stuff like this.
“I did what I did purely out my beliefs,” the 27-year-old Muslim [murderer of Dutch filmmaker Theo Van Gogh] told judges after entering court clutching a Quran. “I want you to know that I acted out of conviction..."
“I have chopped off his head according to the law that orders me to do so to everyone who offends Allah. I do not not feel your pain as I do not know what it is to suffer the loss of a child,” [he said to the victim's mother].
“If I ever get free, I would do it again,” he said.
I was giving this fellow the benefit of the doubt, until I got to this paragraph, which pretty much negated everything else by ommision.
If pluralism, "inspiration from islamic culture", and interdependence are gifts from islam (which I deny totally) where is the other side of the coin? Where are the Christian churches in dar al Islam?
*crickets*
*crickets*
What I find amazing is that this appeared in Time magazine.
"For too long, we Muslims have been sticking fingers in our ears and chanting "Islam means peace" to drown out the negative noise from our holy book. Far better to own up to it. Not erase or revise, just recognize it and thereby join moderate Jews and Christians in confessing "sins of Scripture," as an American bishop says about the Bible. In doing so, Muslims would show a thoughtful side that builds trust with the wider communities of the West."
And where does that leave mohammad whom they must emulate - the 'sinless, divine mohammad, the perfect man, the last prophet'?
Doesn't this author understand the nature of his own cult, or does he really believe we are all stupid?
If islam has to admit the divine mohammad might have made a 'mistake' here and there, islam is writing its own obituary.
Now that would be nice.
"...to talk about Islam's lost tradition of critical thinking and reasoned debate..."
LOL! ROTFLMBO!
"For instance, schools throughout the West should teach how Islamic civilization helped give birth to the European Renaissance..."
Oh Yeah? Surely he jests? Europe, finally released from the oppression of islam, went back to its beautiful, creative, vibrant and culturally magnificent self!
No matter how 'educated' these 'moderate' muslims may be, the lies they tell themselves about their barbarian past stick to them like a bad smell. Islam brought nothing, taught nothing, gave nothing. Islam is parasitic.
Agree: MIGHT BE?!!!
This is a religious war and the denial is that it is not.
It started with Hagar and Sarah / Abraham.
Interesting, it would seem that Mad MO(piss be upon his head) wasn't even born until 569 AD/CE, so that 3rd century University in Iran wasn't Muslim. Persian actually, but not Muslim. Ooops....
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/christ-muslim-debate.html
A CHRISTIAN/MOSLEM DEBATE OF THE 12TH CENTURY
TRANSLATED BY KARIM HAKKOUM AND FR. DALE A. JOHNSON 1989
taken, with permission from http://www.teleport.com/~hamarabi/posts.html, dalej@colubs.com
This remarkable document is a part of a larger genre of Christian literature. Although dated 1165, the document which is in the hands of the family of the late Karim Hakkoum of Portland, Oregon, apparently was owned and perhaps copied by his father in 1914 in Aleppo, Syria.
We publish the first of three installments of this record of a debate between a Christian Abbot George and Moslem clerics under the protection of Saladin.
(snip)
The Monk-- You should know, Abu-Salamah, that Mohammed was from the tribe of Koreish, and descendant of Ishmail, son of Hagar the Egyptian, slave of Sarah, spouse of Abraham.
He was an Arab nomad and camel driver. In his trips, he came to Jerusalem where he had been welcomed by a Christian Nestorian, called Buheira. When he asked Mohammed about his religion, he found him to be one of the pagans. Those were the sons of Ishmail. They worshipped an idol called AL-AKBAR (the greatest). They used to put around him poems containing desire and love written on tablets which they suspended over that idol. They served for prayers and had been called the seven "usudallakat" (suspended). When he (Buheira) knew that he (Mohammed) was from that tribe, he got sympathy for him, due to the similarity of languages, the friendship, and the desire of knowledge. Then he read to him some chapters from the Gospels, the Bible and the Psalms. When he returned home, he said to his friends, " Woe unto you! You are in flagrant error and your worship is null and unprofitable".
They told him, " What is your problem, Mohammed?" He answered, " I found the true God." They asked, " What is his name?" He replied, " His name is ALLAH. He created the heaven and the earth and all creatures in it. He sent me to you as a light and a sign of his compassion." They said, " Could you show him to us to know where he is?" He said, " He resides in the heaven and sees all, but he is invisible." They told him, " We have a deity which we worship and honor. We inherited this worship from our ancestors who gave us the liberty to satisfy our desires with everything we own." Then Mohammed told them, " That one who sent me to you told me that he grants you what is better and greater than what you say." They asked, " What is it?" He said, " It is a paradise where he transfers you after your death. It contains food, drinks, and women."
They asked, " What is the form of the food, drink, and women" He replied, " Rivers of honey, milk and wine, with beautiful women; there you will be not thirsty nor full of tears." they said, " Are you the Messenger of God?" He replied, " Yes." They said, " We fear our god AL-AKBAR."
He said, " worship God and honor AL-AKBAR." Some of them said, " We believe in God, you said the truth," Then he passed through another group from koreish, Muhammed's tribe. He, later met another group. Those people allowed their members to marry their daughters and sisters. Those were their customs, before they knew God. Mohammed wrote to Buheira all what happened to him. Buheira prohibited those customs and with big efforts, he succeeded to draw them to the first cousins. When he got enough adherents from Arabs and their aristocracy, some remained reticent.
Then he desired the monarchy (sovereignty) for himself and formed an armed detachment to fight his contradictors and said, " Those who enter the Islam, will be safe;" and said, " The inhabitants of the heaven and the earth entered the Islam by their will and (some) by force."
Then, he attacked a group convinced another group with adorned words and arguments. His target was to rule them and rush them in order to reach the rest of women, because he was very avid of them. He desired them at a high degree. In confirmation of that, he was not satisfied with his numerous women, but desired Zeid's wife when he saw her and took her from him by force, pretending that God gave her to him as a wife, instead of Zeid. He spoke to his followers in this concern saying, " After Zeid had accomplished his desires from her, We (God) gave her to you as a wife, Mohammed." He pretended that God inspired him to do so. But his followers said, " Messenger of God, what God granted you is not permitted to anyone else."
The Moslem-- Woe unto you, uncircumcised! Zeid had asked him to take her and sworn that she will be unlawful for him.
The Monk-- He had to, otherwise he would have the same destiny as others.
The Moslem-- What happened to them?
The Monk-- Didn't you hear about the bedouin killed by your prophet, on his bed, while God forbids killing even the birds in their beds. When asked by his followers, " Who killed the slave?" "My sword," replied Mohammed.
No Muslim, no matter how "moderate," could have possibly written this paragraph. It suggests that the perfect person, the Prophet Mohammed *(PIHF), misunderstood God and the perfect book, the Koran, is not perfect after all. This type of blasphemy would get a Muslim executed in any Muslim community in the world.
I wonder who this Ishad Manji really is?
* (Pi$$ In His Face)
Mohammed's promise of an Islamic Paradise that glittered with the fulfillment of all sorts of wordly desires and sense enjoyment was nothing but a sinister ploy to recruit those who had no hope or expectation of ever getting these things in their present lives. Knowing that they are assured of such a Paradise simply because they follow Islam, Muslims can go around committing murder, rape plunder and loot. It is the picture of this paradise that has motivated Muslims over the centuries to cut down people of other religions, to desecrate their places of worship and mistreat them in the name of Allah. Even after death, the spritually deprived Prophet of Islam could not see beyond wine, women and food, leave alone exploring spiritual heights of the soul.
Read more...it's a real hoot!
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/heaven.html
I believe the author is a woman, and a gay woman at that, from Canada.
Thanks so much for this comment, Publius. Such a profound insight. Totally correct, as are 99.9% of your remarks! This author is probably sincere, sees himself as a "peacemaker," but he is deluded, and he doesn't realize how insulting it is to us (products of western civilization) to be told that the Judeo-Christian heritage is "interdependent" with the 1,400 year old, barbaric blood-and-death cult - Islam.
Very irritating and disappointing.
Thanks again, Publius! Great contribution to this thread!
Char :)
Thx for the ping Freddie.
It seems as though Allah appeals only to the selfish and base desires of humans. "Follow me and I will fill your carnal needs...Of course you won't have a body with which to enjoy those virgins...but you can watch me do it for you (if not to you)."
I can't believe insurance salesmen aren't lined up to make their pitch to these idiots.
I have a bridge I would like to sell 'em.
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