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To: spanalot; lizol; sergey1973

Let's not forget that the Kremlin killed 15 million Ukrainians from 1921 to 1938 ==

'Kremlin' stands for "fortress". Almost each historical russian town has thier own Kremlin. Novgorod' Kremlin, Kazan' Kremlin, Yaroslavl' Kremlin, Pskov' Kremlin.
And Moscow' Kremlin. It was the staff quaters of Partriarkh was occupied by communists in 1919.
So Kremlin as the place cann't kill anyone. It was commies who did.

Who was those commies. For your surprise in first ever commie goverment of Lenin there was 6 ukranian ministers: Podvoiskii, Lunacharskii, Tsurupa, Antonov-Evseenko. Dibenko, Krilenko.
There founded Ukranian Soviet Republic and ukranian Red army.

So quite much of ukranians participated in building USSR. Why they did it? You try to answer yourself.

By the way I have to admit that quite much of ukaranians fought in rows of White Army too. Together with russians.

Learn real history of Civil war 1917-22 and history of USSR not your limited ukro-nazi version.

Try to answer one simple question.
Why the name of new commie state was 'Soviet Union'. Why not "Russian republic" for example?
If there was red Poland and red China but there was NOT red Russia but Soviet Union? Why that?
Simple question. But hard to answer by those who duped by russo-phobia.


28 posted on 08/29/2005 12:21:06 PM PDT by RusIvan
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To: RusIvan
"..Who was those commies. For your surprise in first ever commie goverment of Lenin there was 6 ukranian ministers: Podvoiskii, Lunacharskii, Tsurupa, Antonov-Evseenko. Dibenko, Krilenko. There founded Ukranian Soviet Republic and ukranian Red army.."

I'd have to check the names mentioned above, but what I know for sure is that for a republic with 75-80% Ukrainian majority, Ukrainians were under-represented in the party. The first Communist Congresses of the Comm. Party of Ukraine had ethnic Ukrainians at single digits percentage of the Party's composition. At the best of times Ukrainians were 50-60% of the republic's party.

So quite much of ukranians participated in building USSR. Why they did it? You try to answer yourself.

Communists of Ukraine couldn't succeed by themselves- they were to weak, so they invited Russian communists and the glorious Red Army. Russian communists brought that order to Ukraine.

..Why the name of new commie state was 'Soviet Union'. Why not "Russian republic" for example?

In the early days of USSR that was what Stalin was pushing for, unitary rather than federal type, but considering that Ukraine had already separated from Russia with declaration of the Ukr. Nat'l Republic in 1917 and USSR being the "most democratic state" which allocated some freedoms to the national minorities, the republics came to be.

If there was red Poland and red China but there was NOT red Russia but Soviet Union? Why that?

I might call myself "Ruler of the Universe Who Is Hung Like a Horse", but it barely reflects the reality. SU was not a state with republics who were equal, so they might as well call it "Russia".

34 posted on 08/29/2005 1:20:53 PM PDT by Mazepa
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To: RusIvan

"So Kremlin as the place cann't kill anyone. It was commies who did. "

The Kremlin has its own Russian culture of ruthless depotism - "One life - One Kopec" is a very old Russian saying.

It goes back to the czars tru the revolution and right up to Putin who will risk submariners and school children and theater hostages just so that the govt is not embarassed.


37 posted on 08/29/2005 2:14:32 PM PDT by spanalot
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To: RusIvan

"For your surprise in first ever commie goverment of Lenin there was 6 ukranian ministers: Podvoiskii, Lunacharskii, Tsurupa, Antonov-Evseenko. Dibenko, Krilenko"

Is this the Ukrainian Govt that Stalin killed off when they failed to Eugene Lyons "Assignment in Utopia".

PS - For you surprise, none of these names google up.


41 posted on 08/29/2005 2:26:00 PM PDT by spanalot
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