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To: Mazepa; spanalot; sergey1973

to ensure that new state is NOT russian state anymore.

Whose was it? (Georgian ?:)) Soviet Constitution and the (superficial) administrative devision into the republics didn't do anything and Russians remained the nationality in control.==

Yeah yeah.:) Before 1917, there was Russian Empire the state with no minority regions at all. Which was run by russian czar administration with russians at frist roles.

After Civil war 1917-22 which russians lost.

There become SOVIET Union instead of RUSSIAN Empire. New state where goverment included jews and ukranians in majority where georgian Dzhugashvilli(STalin) run political power. Where pole Dzerzginskii run secret police. Where jew Trotskii was military minister and head of staff.
And his goverment you call "russian"?!!!!!

I know that even for russophobes is not logic to call such goverment with 1 or 2 ethnic russians between 20-30 ministers as "russian goverment".

So they do mental trick: they just start to ignore ethnicities of bolshevick ministers and call them all as "russian". Or they call thier govement is "russian" since they sat in Moscow' Kremlin and conviniently to ingnore the fact that Moscow was sieged and occupied in 1918 by Lathvian Rifle division.

FYI lathvians were from Latvia, baltic state. They are NOT russians. And thier rifles surved bolshevicks well. They was pretorian guards of Red power.

Britons when thier minorities put up same question just broke up British EMpire and leave it. They were better off.

Ah, but these are Brits. Russians held on to their empire because they're die-hard imperialists, (sing "Shiroka zemlia moya rodnaya" with me) and to Ukraine because it's Russia's younger brother.==

Do you beleive in it?:))) I regret if you do so.

It is no damage to anyone else then you if you think that way.
Because since you are mistaken and your mistakes will take on you not russians:).

I will try to tell you some sense.

1. Russians are pragmatics same way as anybody else. If some enterprise bring pfofits then russians stick to it. If not then russians don't need it anymore.

2. So russians held to Empire till it was RUSSIAN Empire. The state which was run by russians andf for sake of russian prosperity.
Russians are not fools. So russians do not need state which worked away of russian interests.

3. Red power was non-russian at core since it is internationalists (proclaims no favor to no ethnicity). Why russians would trust internationalists who want to stop thier domination in thier own profounded state? Who of russians in sane minds will submit the new power which wants to stop russian domination in Russin Empire?

4. I admit that russians dominated in Russian Empire and now in Russian Federation. And maybe some minorities don't like it then and today.
BUT Soviet Union was run NON russians and against interest of russian power. Hence russian White movement fought with red power 4 year long Civil war.


66 posted on 08/31/2005 11:29:09 AM PDT by RusIvan
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To: RusIvan
Before 1917, there was Russian Empire the state with no minority regions at all. Which was run by russian czar administration with russians at frist roles.
And that was a crime which earned Russians the resentment from the minorities. Do you regret what happened since? Don't tell me you're like Zhirinovsky who also wants to restore the Russian Empire.

Russians are pragmatics same way as anybody else. If some enterprise bring pfofits then russians stick to it.
I could also be the biggest pragmatic- if conquering others is good for business i'll stick to it. Both imperialist and pragmatic.:)

Red power was non-russian at core since it is internationalists (proclaims no favor to no ethnicity).
Let's talk about practical things. For one, I noticed that while you grew up in an 'internationalist' regime, you had no idea who Ukrainian Communists like Scrypnyk or Khvylovyy were. Also while I can remember a passage from "Borodino" or Pushkin, you couldn't do so with Shevchenko. That's not very internationalist from the Soviet education. I think it was Dziuba (you of course as a Russian wouldn't know this Ukrainian) who wrote an essay in 60's "Internationalism or Russification"- subject is clear from title. He got in huge trouble with Comm.Party.
Also for some unknown reason, as a result of the Soviet era, HALF of the Ukrainians call Russian language as their primary language. Interesting that it's Russian langauge, not Latvian, Georgian or Hebrew. Prior to the revolution, the only language that the Ukrainian peasant knew was Ukrainian.

68 posted on 09/01/2005 10:25:33 AM PDT by Mazepa
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