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To: Mazepa; spanalot; sergey1973

Also for some unknown reason, as a result of the Soviet era, HALF of the Ukrainians call Russian language as their primary language. Interesting that it's Russian langauge, not Latvian, Georgian or Hebrew. Prior to the revolution, the only language that the Ukrainian peasant knew was Ukrainian.==

I red reminicences of Vladimir Shulgin. Who was ethnic ukranian deputy of Russian DUMA BEFORE October Revolt.
He wrote that those ukranians who was under rule of Austria and Poland of cause didn't know russian language.
But those who lived in Empire knew it. Because thier ukranian was different and very near russian then from Austrian and Poland territories.

Why bolshevicks kept russian language?

I think just because the biggest ehthical group spoke that languge and in same time russian was the language for inter-ethnical dialogs in Empire.
So soviets simply couldn't interchange it for hebrew or lathvian or ukranian. Or experanto for example.
Accualy bolshevicks has that idea to make the official languge of USSR the experanto. But they dropped that idea.

Before 1917, there was Russian Empire the state with no minority regions at all. Which was run by russian czar administration with russians at frist roles.
And that was a crime which earned Russians the resentment from the minorities. Do you regret what happened since? Don't tell me you're like Zhirinovsky who also wants to restore the Russian Empire. ===

Yes I regret what happened. At same time I know that all minorities and russians too are guilty that they couldn't find agreement and went to Civil war. But I have to emphasize that the majority of russian forces was on side of White Movement AGAINST majority of united minorities who were on side of international reds.

Sametime I admit that some smaller russian group fought on side of Reds and in same time some of minorities group fought on one side with White Movement.

So I don't blame minorities of Russian Empire for communism alone. I think that russians are guilty too.

But I completely against some of former minorities of RE today try to put all blames for commies on russians and to embelish themselves sumultaniously.
When they try to ignore the commie past of thier own people and thier own participation in soviet power. I think it is just manipulative dishonesty and fraud of history.

So we ALL guilty for commies won. Minorities and russians and vise versa.

Russians - for they fought not strong enough against them. But minorities - for they succumb Red propaganda about national independences and supported bolshevicks to get power and to accquire thier independences form bolshevick hands.

As some of them did. But later bolshevicks took thier word back and baltics for example payed thier price. As we all know - they were "compelled" to join Soviet Union.
But since thier rifles helped to bolshevicks got power in first place, so those grim consequances are on them.

About Zhrinosvkii.

I think Zhirik is just clown who just teases those of foreigners who stuck with old stereotypes of thinking.

I beleive he perfectly understand as majority that today status quo is most profitable for Russia.

Why on earth russians need those bands of alien people in thier neiborhoods? Why Russia needs that burden which Russia will have to feed, to give up her resource for free?

Sametime today just same people pay good money for russian products and everyone around hopes that it will continue forever.

I pray God no more Empire anymore! No more subsidies and preferences. No more free russian resource for any "friend" or "brother" ever.

Just trade relationship with strict payments for delivered goods - that is all what Russia needs.

But Zhirik (Vlad Zhirinovskii) just teases you since you succumb to his teasings:)).
He just teases russophobes:).
I think it is his first intention since I like to do this too:). I like to tease russophobes on this boards:).

So Zhrik by his public stunts keeps all russophobes busy:). Thier brains are boiling and thier all thoughts all dedicated to understand if Zhirik expresses his own opinion or Putin'?:)) And so on and on. If they rest for some times he adds them more clues again:).

But while russophobes spend time to solve Zhrik's clues, they couldn't do dirties to Russia:). That is all about and he good in it:).

Russia sametimes continues to build houses and factories, to sell oil and gas and her weaponry for good money, to research, to design new spaceships and at the end to enrich her people step by step.


70 posted on 09/01/2005 11:46:32 AM PDT by RusIvan
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To: RusIvan

I'm certainly against making Russians as an ethnic or ethno-cultural group as the scapegoats for the Communism. However, it's wrong when you say that majority of Russians supported White Guard. In Fact, initially majority of Russians (esp. Peasantry) supported Bolsheviks with their promises of "lands to peasantry, factories to workers". However, after Bolshevism showed its teeth with forceful requisition of food, harvest and other necessities from the countryside to feed the nascent Red Army and summary execution of peasantry, the Russian peasantry started to rebel. The Antonov rebellion of 1921-1922 in Tambov province was probably the most known and it was taking place after White Guard was largely defeated. It was Marshal Tukhachevsky, Red Army top Officer and Russian Nobleman with Polish Roots, who put down Antonov Rebellion with utmost sadism by burning villages with villagers to the ground and using gas against rebel remnants. Don't forget that a significant number of Russian Imperial army and Navy officers joined Bolsheviks. Many of them joined under duress--their relatives were taken by VChK as hostages. However, there were a number of officers who joined the Red Army voluntarily. In other words, I believe it's important not to invent new myths, but to look honestly in each and everyone else path to see what actually happened.


72 posted on 09/01/2005 12:12:41 PM PDT by sergey1973 (Russian American Political Blogger, Arm Chair Strategist)
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To: RusIvan
..So soviets simply couldn't interchange it for hebrew or lathvian or ukranian...
The communist experiment could have survived without making Russian language THE state language, and republics could have existed semi-independently and developing their own thing. The only function that the Russian language would've had for the minorities is that it would enable them to communicate with other minorities. That's all the Russian language was supposed to be good for, a small role because how many times does a person from Moldova encounter someone from Latvia or Tajikistan, but instead what Soviets did was overkill- Russian displaced the local language in importance.
These centralization efforts by the Soviets, made you, Russians, the winners. And yet, there you are, saying that Soviets screwed Russians.

But I have to emphasize that the majority of russian forces was on side of White Movement AGAINST majority of united minorities who were on side of international reds.
Majority of the Ukrainian population were with anarchists (like Makhno).

But Zhirik (Vlad Zhirinovskii) just teases you since you succumb to his teasings:)). He just teases russophobes:).
Well, no, he's not like a matador waving the red cloth.
You'd probably know that a large part of Ukraine are pro-Russian. It is my and other russophobes' hope that there are more Russians like him who would turn that portion of the Ukrainian population away from Russia. So it's an internal Ukrainian thing. I'm not observing what Russia is doing- for example I don't know the names of your ministers or leaders of your lesser parties. Russian internal political situation rarely makes the Ukrainian news.

73 posted on 09/01/2005 3:13:16 PM PDT by Mazepa
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