Posted on 09/07/2005 11:51:55 AM PDT by zipper
Paris - A confusing series of alarm signals and the lack of an effective common language between its pilots doomed a Cypriot airliner that crashed near Athens last month, killing all 121 people on board, the daily International Herald Tribune said on Wednesday, quoting investigators.
An air system knob that had been incorrectly set during maintenance on the ground prevented the Helios Airways Boeing 737 from pressurising properly, but the crew failed to notice the problem during their preflight checks, people connected to the investigation told the newspaper.
Then, as the aircraft ascended through 3 000m, a pressurisation alarm - a device that can also warn of improper takeoff settings while the plane is on the ground - confused the pilots, who did not realize that the cabin was not pressurising, according to the cockpit voice recordings.
As the oxygen masks deployed while the plane continued to climb on autopilot another alarm sounded, further confusing the pilots, said the sources, who spoke on condition that they not be named.
Couldn't discuss problems
It was at this point that pilots realised they did not possess any shared language well enough to discuss complex technical problems, according to the report, which described the Cypriot co-pilot as young and inexperienced....
[snip]
(Excerpt) Read more at news24.com ...
The Captain actually left his seat to see what he could do about shutting off the altitude alarm!
I'd like to see an official representation of this report, because right now it's just unimaginable that a professionally trained crew from any nation could be so inept. I am dumbfounded.
Are there any Freepers with a 737 type rating that can explain what "air system knob" they are talking about that prevented the aircraft pressurization?
I blew out an "air system knob" once, while on a date, but I haven't the foggiest vis-a-vis airliners.
Well, actually, it was on my date . . . . .
You would think that professional pilots would recognize improper pressurization. Everyone uses technology as a crutch these days, and they dont' even use common sense because of it.
Cluster Foxtrot. That is all I can say on a family website...
If an alarm is confusing the pilots, this sounds like a training problem.
These guys are pilots and they don't notice that their ears are popping? If they notice, they don't know what it means and don't take the plane off of its autopilot climb? And the reason the captain leaves the cockpit is just to turn off the alarm?
Wow.
There were live animals in the passenger section, and piles of coconuts in the pilots' cabin. The plane did land safely on the beach which was its destination, on Roatan, off the Honduran coast. And yes, I was (relatively) young and stupid at the time, and did not pay attention to the quality of the equipment or personnel on the plane. LOL.
Congressman Billybob
Latest column: "The Constitution is Finished: Not the US One, the Atlanta One"
One of which was it had only one entrance...in the rear.
I have been watching this story develop on the Greek Sat TV.
I think this story is dubious because all airline pilots are english speaking as part of their training. English is the language pilots.
I seriously question these "anonymous" sources. How many pilots would take off if an alarm is going off? Masks are poping out etc.
This story is dubious.
I have no doubt some kind of mechanical problem existed and no doubt there was pilot error involved. (just how well was that german substitute trained?) However I just can't see this kind of yellow journalism sensationalization.
(it is after all a french source...)
People, you need to be careful who you fly with. Generally speaking, small airlines in third world countries are dangerous. Turboprops are more dangerous statistically, and generally the small turboprops have the more inexperienced pilots at the controls, and tend to have less ability to handle adverse conditions like icing, and less sophisticated radar for weather aviodance. And the new "RJ's" (regional jets), though more sophisticated than most turboprops, are nice, but still have the more inexperienced, low-paid pilots trying to build their hours, and have lots of turnover in their crew force. The multi-engine large jets from major airlines are the safest (as long as they aren't in bankruptcy anyway-- then maintenance suffers).
I saw an article in (I think it was) yesterday's Wall Street Journal about airline safety-- there's supposed to be a list airlines rated by IATA (International Air Transport Association) that submitted voluntarily to independent safety audits by IATA, about 50 airlines, I think. I'm looking for it online at www.IATA.org and haven't found anything yet.
There’s an airliner crash story, the veracity of which I haven’t confirmed, of a pilot responding to the ground-proximity warning’s “Pull up, pull up!” with “Shut up, shut up!”
I am dumbfounded and skeptical too. But I just found a more detailed story on the International Herald Tribune site (the story I posted above quotes the IHT):
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/09/06/news/crash.php
Need to read this-- all the timeline events make sense to me, and like most airline crashes, a series of errors lead to the fatal outcome for all aboard.
Yes I know the IHT is now owned by the New York Times-- and I won't buy it when I'm overseas, because their editorial policy is so skewed-- but this is a different type of article that doesn't leave much room for political interpretation and most of the facts seem plausible, though the conduct of the crew seems unbelievable!
Perhaps PD can shed some light on this topic.
I can think of at several accidents like this off the top of my head-- the Agana, Guam Korean Air 747 a few years ago, and a C141 in which I think the crew was trying to change a light bulb in the landing gear indicator panel, not to mention just about every CFIT (controlled flight into terrain) accident that's ever happened-- and there are many.
A little more detail from the Int'l Herald Tribune article:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/09/06/news/crash.php
"Investigators pieced together the story of the crash from numerous sources. In the wreckage, they found the first solid clues - the pressurization valve and an air outflow valve set incorrectly. Air traffic control tapes provided information on the confusion in the cockpit."
[snip]
"The plane that crashed, a Boeing 737, underwent maintenance the night before. The maintenance crew apparently left a pressurization controller rotary knob out of place, according to the officials connected to the investigation, and the crew did not catch the mistake during preflight checks the next day. This meant that the plane could not pressurize."
<speculation>
IIRC, when Payne Stewart's plane had its cabin pressure failure, they talked about a 'bleed air valve' (or some similar term) being the cause. This may have been the control for that valve.
</speculation>
Greek plane had 'many problems'
1) Lavender scented body oil in coach instead of KY jelly.
2) Pilot's were not color coordinated.
3) Too many women on board, ugh.
</sarcasm>
The Wall Street Journal article I saw was pubished on 9/6/05. "The Middle Seat: Researching Your Airline's Safety Record"
Unfortunately I don't have an online subscription, and I threw the paper copy away.
Exactly. I was thinking the same thing-- many similarities to the Payne Stewart crash, detailed below:
"But the wreckage could not help investigators determine why the pressurization system failed or whether the pilots received emergency oxygen. The valve that supplies pressurized air for the interior of the jet was found in a closed position, but the pilots could have closed it in an attempt to troubleshoot the problem, investigators said."
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/09/06/news/crash.php
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