Archaeologists Find Western World's Oldest Map (500BC)

The Telegraph (UK) ^ | 11-18-2005 | Hilary Clarke

[blam]

"Duh, I didn't notice the link I posted (to the Telegraph) was the same one the thread points to. I guess the picture wasn't up yet when the original poster saw the article."

Thanks, good work. The picture wasn't there earlier when I posted the article.

[stacytec]

I bet you there was a woman in the back of the chariot insisting that her husband look at the damn thing.

[SteveMcKing]

Meh. Restroom graffiti-scrawl...

[ApplegateRanch]

Restroom graffiti-scrawl...

Name & map to her 'house'? On a WALL? Big deal!

I've managed to draw maps in the snow.

Among the other drawbacks, they had to stay where they were until they melted.

Series, though; this hugh find is too 'finished' ...and on a VASE, no less?...to not imply a long tradition of map making.

It somehow seems like finding a 1940s superheterodyne multi-band radio schematic, and concluding that radios were invented circa 1940, ignoring all that MUST go before such a full blown model is possible.

[dr_who_2]

A maps go, it's pretty lousy.

[SunkenCiv]

Actually, the myth of the flat Earth being disproved by Columbus was invented during the 19th century. The spherical nature of the Earth was common knowledge at least as early as the classical Greeks. The fact that the shadow of the Earth on the Moon was circular is one thing that tipped 'em off.

Herodotus had a screwy idea about the Sun (seen in his idea about the source of the out-of-season flood of the Nile, described after he described the correct reason and two others), but knew that the Mediterranean and Atlantic connected with the Indian Ocean (and he doesn't differentiate between the Persian Gulf, Red Sea etc, and the Indian Ocean), and he wasn't the discoverer of that fact, merely reported it 2500 years ago.

[SunkenCiv]

And kinda heavy and fragile to lug around from town to town. ;')

Here's a Babylonian world map of 600 BC. Let's all be the judge of whether the Greek map was better or worse. :')

http://www.henry-davis.com/MAPS/Ancient%20Web%20Pages/103.html

[geopyg]

Kinda makes ya wonder what the REST of the vase had on it?!

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks Blam! Ostrac-up the band in a salute to this interesting topic. I hope the rest of the chunks are found, just to see if there's a map the entire boot, and Sicily.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

[BlessedByLiberty]

As always, thanks for the ping and another interesting bit of historical knowledge.

Mr. BBL would love a copy of that map, so he would NEVER have to hear me nag him to stop and ask for directions!

[Hegemony Cricket]

was it marked "Frah-Jee-Lay" ( I think it's Italian)?

[eleni121]

Thanks blam. Great find.

Greek ping list attention.

If you want to be taken off this informal list let me know.

Eleni

[eleni121]

The Greeks had been in Sicily for thousands of years. They were there between 2,000-1,000 BC in the Bronze age, and left significant Mycenaean influence.

[dr_who_2]

Another interesting link:

Ancient Greek Music

[SunkenCiv]

Oooh. That could make a good standalone topic. Will check it out later. Somewhere in the GGG catalog there are a couple of ancient music topics, at least a couple. One about ancient Korean flutes, the other about Neandertal flutes.

[Cronos]

well no, there weren't any Greeks (or Achaens) in 2000 to 1000 BC. The first civilisation in what is now Greece was, as you know, in Crete, though it is debatable if they were ancestors of current Greeks and/or if they were somehow related to the Phoenicians. They did borrow a lot of things from the Phoenicians though, including religious stories and a script. The next 'Greeks' are the Myceneans. But that starts only at 1200 BC and ends around 1000 BC replaced by the Doric Greeks (I still think they more or less replaced the Ionians -- or was it the other way around?). Anyway, the Greek colonies you talk about started only in the 1st millenium before Christ. Ancient, yes, but not as ancient as the middle-eastern civilisations: the Persian, the Babylonian, the Assyrian, the Hittite, the Egyptian, the Sumerian, the Mitanni, the Indus valley etc.

[eleni121]

"well no, there weren't any Greeks (or Achaens) in 2000 to 1000 BC."
____________________________________________________


Actually yes. Ancient Greeks lived in Greece about 3,500 years ago.

AS for Greeks "borrowing" from Phoenicia...traditional approaches are being revised. May I suggest you read this regarding who borrowed from whom.

http://www.grecoreport.com/phoenician.htm


As for Sicily----

"Evidence indicates a Mycenean and Minoan presence in certain parts of Sicily, particularly ports along the Ionian coast, before 1400 BC, possibly for trade."


http://www.bestofsicily.com/mag/art153.htm

[SunkenCiv]

GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach	join list or digest view topics view or post blog bookmark post a topic subscribe
Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution. Babylonian clay tablet world map, 600 B.C. Greek language [Omniglot] Linear B [Omniglot] Linear A [Omniglot] Mycenaeans & Minoans in Sicily Ugaritic [Omniglot] Phoenician/Canaanite [Omniglot] Ancient Greek Music Prehistoric Music | Ancient Music Instruments and Songs Online To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.