Posted on 12/27/2005 4:58:53 AM PST by liberallarry
While I can agree with the cynicism (all people are motivated by selfishness) and can almost understand stoicism (unemotional) I'd have to say that you are definitely a liberal. I mean really, all this concern over a little dirt in a stream on the other side of the planet? That's liberal.
Maybe we shouldn't. I was just pointing out that we're making lots of enemies and lots of terrorists.
The gold is a good resource than needs to be extracted and our company is doing it in accordance with applicable laws. Everyone wins
Ha!
The river will cleanse itself in due time
That cleansing might include all of humanity...and the process could be drawn-out and very, very painful.
No. That's intelligent. From tiny acorns giant oaks do grow. And the signs and trends are no longer tiny.
The simple part is that, like the much bemoaned rain forests, the locals are quite willing to "spread (a) soot-colored bruise of almost a billion tons of mine waste (by dumping it) directly into a jungle river of what had been one of the world's last untouched landscapes."...or just cut the trees for lumber and burn them to clear land for planting. Whatever.
Your argument comes down to ideology; that is is somehow better for the locals to trash the ecology than for a US company to turn a profit.
Have you ever looked at the area in question?It's a friggin cliff. Straight up mpuntaons. There are no natives. Don't be such a whiney dork.
I should have posted with my glasses on. I meant mountain.
So the residents of Papua and its environs get their news of the U.S. from which newspaper, which TV station, which Internet Service provider? Enlighten me please.
And certainly Bill Clinton's corruption had an effect on Papua, didn't it?
No it didn't...unless you think it was corrupt of him not to declare Papua a national monument. I'm SURE you didn't mean that. :)
Or is that only when you're bashing George Bush?
I voted for George Bush. I criticize him but I don't shoot off my mouth in the ignorant way you do.
That's very sentimental, but it wasn't yours to take.
You're wrong. I voted for the man who took it. It was my right to do so...and his right to do so...and it will remain taken until and unless the country votes to do otherwise, or developers bribe the courts and Congress.
That, Larry, is what communists do.
It's what all kinds of societies do, most societies do. How do you think this country got its land?
Exactly why we have to keep you and your ilk out of power.
Who's "we" white man? Don't tell me you actually care about the rights of Papuans, or most people who don't look and act like you. My "ilk" is the human race.
Really? And that river runs right into the sea which is a short distance away and carries all that dirt and waste far out into the farthest deeps where it affects almost nothing? Sorry for being such a dork. I never imagined that something like that could happen. I should have known that only the NYSlimes could exagerate such a non-event.
Ever seem the Mississippi? You'd think it was dead with all the siltation that occurs more or les naturally. How about the yellow river. How come it's the life blood of China.
I apologize, i should not have called you a dork.
In the 1960's, when Freeport entered Papua, its explorers were among the very first outsiders ever encountered by local tribesmen swathed only in penis gourds and armed with bows and arrows...Freeport said that it had "taken appropriate steps" to provide for its more than 18,000 employees and contract workers.
I guess you didn't read even the first page of the article.
Are you equating mine waste with natural silt? It's possible a valid assertion but I doubt it.
I apologize, i should not have called you a dork.
No problem. Gutter fighting can be fun too.
I guess they are paying millions to government officials, and that the millions are going directly into the pockets of governments officials.
I'm a realist.
I know that everyone can't have what they want because the resources of the earth are finite.
Increase the population and each person gets less. That's a simplification of course. It's not exactly a zero-sum game but in the matter of land - which is fundamental - its close enough for government work, as they say.
No, larry ~you~ are saying you want government to 'work' at controlling population & land -- because we have 'finite resources'..
Admit it, thats a luddite authoritarian agenda, better suited for a socialistic world.
Be realistic, we live in a capitalistic world.
...not that any of the proposed solutions actually work...
seriously.
It's why I'm a cynic and a stoic.
Because an American company got the job of mining the gold reserves?
I'm sure that companies in countries like France, Germany, Russia and China would not mine in such a pristine wilderness.
If no company from a foreign land would do the work the impoverished people in that impoverished land would make the area a world peace park and not go after the gold themselves.
I'm cynical that you're a stoic..
I'd say you're an active liberal socialist.. Why can't you fess up?
They are probably using mercury vapor.. It is the cheapest and fastest way of getting the gold..
That is also what is being used in places like South America, the Phillipines, etc..
The other possibility is Nitric Acid...
This method works quite well, (most efficient extraction) but toxicity of the waste depends on whether it's treated with hydrogen peroxide or not..
So, there you have it. 2 possible toxic waste materials..
One, mercury.. In a river, emptying into the ocean...
Two, Nitric Acid.. mixing with various elements on it's way to the sea, and producing nitrogen sulfides, nitro-this, nitro-that.. and emptying into the sea..
I gotta give Larry this one..
Gold mining is a heavy producer of toxic waste..
Not that it has to be, it's just that cleanup cuts into the profit margin, and most mines / miners don't want to bear that cost..
You're absolutely right. They'd love to displace us. Don't be so defensive. I wasn't criticizing American companies...or capitalists of any kind. I was illuminating the scene, describing what's really happening, warts and all.
If no company from a foreign land would do the work the impoverished people in that impoverished land would make the area a world peace park and not go after the gold themselves.
You don't get it. I told you I was a cynic and a realist. The natives were savages, different from the greediest of capitalists only in their lack of knowledge and power.
I'm not concerned with them, but rather the whole process of "development" and "exploitation" which is threatening to destroy the environment which is mother to us all.
The President I most like was TR. If you think he was an active liberal socialist then so am I.
Cyanide..
They are using cyanide to access the gold..
Tailings usually have high levels of mercury, cyanide, cadmium and arsenic..
Even the "fiercest" cynic would agree this stuff is "not good for you"..
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