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To: wagglebee
Add to your list DISCIPLINE. Kids are natural learners, if the environment is conducive to it. And, discipline would actually save money.

I've reached the point where sometimes I wonder if the government-controlled education doesn't strive to identify a small percentage of excellent students, and let the rest learn just enough to be good, un-questioning, dependent worker-bees.

6 posted on 01/07/2006 12:52:40 PM PST by grania ("Won't get fooled again")
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To: grania

That's what socialism does to you.


8 posted on 01/07/2006 12:53:30 PM PST by darkangel82
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To: grania
and let the rest learn just enough to be good, un-questioning, dependent worker-bees.

Unlike Simms, to the guvmint an educated consumer is NOT their best customer.

16 posted on 01/07/2006 12:59:12 PM PST by Dad2Angels
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To: grania; All

Discipline. As a student I can tell you it is lacking. I can also tell you simply why...self-esteem. Sadly, schools, even private ones, are worried about damaging the state of a student by bringing that student down. I guess the idea of operant conditioning has never caught up to them. If you reward someone for incompetence or laziness or a poor attitude, what do you expect to get in return...more of the same ol' thing. You can't just pat someone on the back, blame their environment, or blame any other exterior variable for their actions. Personal responsibility must be instilled. Rousseau must have snuck in through a back door of the American school system. So, on top of a free market, refined school systems must execute discipline. Is it any wonder why the work ethic of many students in Amercica is going down the drain and looking more like the French each day?


42 posted on 01/07/2006 1:21:17 PM PST by TexCon ("Strike while the iron is hot, and make it hotter by striking"-Oliver Cromwell)
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To: grania
I've reached the point where sometimes I wonder if the government-controlled education doesn't strive to identify a small percentage of excellent students, and let the rest learn just enough to be good, un-questioning, dependent worker-bees.

Sure. The Kennedys and Rockefellers hate competition. And entrenched political interests don't need a swarm of young, intelligent, informed voters knocking apart the corrupt infrastructures they have spent decades building.

67 posted on 01/07/2006 1:44:13 PM PST by Mr. Jeeves ("When the government is invasive, the people are wanting." -- Tao Te Ching)
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To: grania
Add to your list DISCIPLINE. Kids are natural learners, if the environment is conducive to it. And, discipline would actually save money.

My nephew was being a little beast at school a couple of months ago. When his mother picked him us the teacher said, "Well, his folder says he got 'green' today, but he actually got 'red'."

"Why doesn't it say 'red'?" his mother asked.

"Oh, he would let me have the folder to change it."

Wouldn't let her have the folder? Since when does a 7 year old have the choice whether or not to obey an adult?

Yes, he parents got after the boy when they got home. That night my nephew was playing with my son, fell off the porch and got a small scrape on his back. Three adults, one teenager and one boy were witness. To me, this was no big deal. The kid fell down. But his parents wouldn't send him to school the next day. "The school knows he got into trouble. If we send him, they'll think we beat him for that and call social services." We've created a society where parents are terrified to discipline their own children and teachers are powerless to do more than ask the child to participate in consequences. The adults have NO authority over these children and the kids aren't stupid. They're going to take advantage. Then we wonder why we're producing uneducated monsters.

177 posted on 01/07/2006 5:18:05 PM PST by Marie (Support the Troops. Slap a hippy.)
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To: grania

The school system where we live does just what you say. They identify children in first grade as "gifted", and then they allow the ones with the highest scores and recommendations to attend a segregated school. (it's very WHITE.) Those students are told from the time they enter the school that they are the greatest thing since sliced cheese. It is rather shocking to hear all the hype. The children are taught at a rapid pace, and it is hard to get bored. If you happen to go to any of the other schools, you are lucky if you have two other "gifted" children in your class. You could luck out and have an exceptional teacher who seeks to help you reach your potential. I could go on and on about this, but one of my oddball children wants to use this machine. Parents can make a huge difference in the schools their children attend by letting the administration know that you expect the best.


308 posted on 01/08/2006 4:44:03 PM PST by petitfour
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