Digging for a Subway, but Hitting a Wall, Again

NY Times ^ | January 23, 2006 | PATRICK McGEEHAN

[Dr. Scarpetta]

Some more NY history:

"The Island at the Center of the World" by Russell Shorto

The Epic Story of Dutch Manhattan and the Forgotten Colony That Shaped America...

“A tour de force. . . . The dramatic story of New York’s origins is splendidly told. . . . A masterpiece of storytelling and first-rate intellectual history.” --The Wall Street Journal

“As Russell Shorto demonstrates in this mesmerizing volume, the story we don’t know is even more fascinating than the one we do . . .Historians must now seriously rethink what they previously understand about New York’s origins . . .” –The New York Post

[cogitator]

If I remember my history correctly, this is near where the legendary treasure of the Knights Templar is buried. A documentary on the discovery of this treasure was released in 2004. In my opinion it overemphasized the somewhat mundane details of finding the location of the treasure, but the historical accuracy of the documentary was remarkably loony accurate.

[SES1066]

Thanks - will look this book up.

[Dr. Scarpetta]

You're welcome

[Pharmboy]

Indeed...Trinity Church is a mere quarter mile north of the area shown in the map.

[Pharmboy]

Great book...read it last year. Thanks for the post.

[Robert A Cook PE]

So the tree-lined entrance is the old causeway to the "castle" - needed when the castle was surrounded by water.

I see: Castle Clinton and Fort Clinton: (Hmmn, wonder Hillary knew the DeWitt Clinton's "name" recognition in NYC would help her? Any bit of advertising/name recognition helps!)

Sounds like my dates are all over both of the wars (Revolutionary and 1812): before/during/and after. Oh well, right era's at least: in the first round of coastal fort-building, but before the new "standardized" brick forts fought all over during the civil war.

Ellis Island/Statue of Liberty foundation is built on another fort - same era; and i thought Grant's Tomb is actually a third fort. True?

[VOA]

bump

[XRdsRev]

Interesting article. I was fortunate to have worked on the archaeological studies of Battery Gibson at Ellis Island.

Battery Gibson was constructed in the 1790's as part of the harbor defenses of New York. In the late 19th century, the fortification was largely dismantled and buried under fill as Ellis Island was expanded from its original 3 acres to the present 20. During construction of a memorial wall next to the immigration station, remains of the battery were rediscovered, which we archaeologists further exposed and recorded. Remains included a stretch of the massive stone battery seawall and anchoring mortises for the battery's cannon.

The National Park Service amended the memorial wall design so the some of the archaeological remnants of Battery Gibson could remain exposed for public view as a permanent exhibit. Visitors to Ellis Island today can still see the battery wall and learn about the military history of Ellis Island and New York Harbor.

[cogitator]

It's kinda squeezed right in the middle of (ahem) Wall Street, isn't it?

[Pharmboy]

It sure looks skwozen in that pic, but it is right on Broadway, where Wall St. starts...

[Pharmboy]

Wow...you are the real deal! Thanks for posting your personal experience in the archeologic dig in NY Harbor. Would love to hear any other such stories from you...you can always post a "vanity" in chat here, and ping us.

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

No one opposes Commissioner Moses,
Even the fishes accede to his wishes.

(After he had the Noo Yawk Aquarium moved to Coney Island to make room for one of his projects.)

A single man, he died in 1979 leaving an estate valued about $100,000, iirc. If he'd gone into private business he would have been worth many millions. A fantastic public servant, who gave public service a good name.

Congressmen like Tip O'Neill make millions selling influence and die rich, but so long as they're Democrats, it's O.K., I suppose.

[rlferny]

Those rules only apply to people in the western United States

[XRdsRev]

New York City Forts

http://www.geocities.com/naforts/nycity2.html

[mewzilla]

Just to the red bits, eh?

[XRdsRev]

Thanks for the kind invitation Pharm. I also worked on the "African" Burial Ground (not the Federal Building site but the portion adjacent to it along Chambers Street in City Hall Park.

That was a real nightmare. Between the hassle of commuting into lower Manhattan every day and the crap we had to take from certain passers-by, it was pretty stressful. It was a thankless and sad job, dealing with dead (most of whom probably were not African-Americans but American Prisoners of War executed by the British). Nobody wanted us to be there and the project was heavily tied up in political garbage. To put the icing on the cake, our entire archaeological crew was cursed by a self appointed African priest from North Carolina haha.

[Betis70]

>>since ships from Europe would drop their ballast ... Very interesting. That probably happened at a lot of places, huh?

It sure did. When working for a contract archaeologist in CT, I've dug up flint arrow points made out of flint from the white cliffs of Dover, England. The natives knew good stone material when they saw it, because New England had did not have a lot of high-quality flakable material.

Every once in a while we'd come across some flint used in flintlock muskets. Very high craftsmanship on the stone tool flaking.

[Pharmboy]

Thanks...fascinating stuff.

[Pharmboy]

Indeed...I visited that site when it was being excavated, and remember the brouhaha that attended it.