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Digging for a Subway, but Hitting a Wall, Again
NY Times ^ | January 23, 2006 | PATRICK McGEEHAN

Posted on 01/23/2006 3:51:20 AM PST by Pharmboy

Workers digging up Battery Park for a 21st-century subway station keep bumping into the 18th century at every turn.

For the second time in a few months, workers have uncovered a stone wall that archaeologists believe has stood near the southern tip of Manhattan since New York was a British colony. Like the one found in November, this wall stands in the way of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's plan to replace the South Ferry station, where the No. 1 train turns around to head back uptown.

City officials said they did not yet have a clear idea of when the second wall was built or what its purpose was. But they have agreed that it, like the first one, is historically significant and must be preserved.

"It's a historic wall of some kind," said Adrian Benepe, commissioner of the Department of Parks and Recreation.

The second wall was discovered in late December, and transit officials were concerned that it could prompt the Federal Transit Administration, which is paying for the new station, to halt the project.

But Bernard Cohen, director of the administration's Lower Manhattan Recovery Office, decided on Thursday that the excavation could resume in the park after all of the pieces of the two walls were cataloged, carefully removed and stored in crates.

Joan C. Berkowitz, an architectural conservator who is supervising the removal of the walls for the transportation authority, said that the first wall should be removed by the end of January and that the second might be removed by early February.

The authority does not have an official estimate of the cost of removing the two walls, but Mysore L. Nagaraja, the president of the M.T.A. Capital Construction Company,

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; US: New York; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: colonialhistory; godsgravesglyphs; nyc; oldenewyork
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The World Trade Center would be about an inch and a half above the top left border of the map.

Also, it might interest some of you to note that the shoreline of lower Manhattan expanded in the early years since ships from Europe would drop their ballast (stones and soil) as they came closer to shore so they would ride higher in the water and get near to shore. This natural landfill was therefore made of European soil.

1 posted on 01/23/2006 3:51:23 AM PST by Pharmboy
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To: indcons; Chani; thefactor; blam; aculeus; ELS; Doctor Raoul; mainepatsfan; timpad; ...

The Washington Family Coat of Arms

Please freepmail to get ON or be taken OFF this RevWar/Colonial History/General Washington ping list

2 posted on 01/23/2006 3:55:23 AM PST by Pharmboy (The stone age didn't end because they ran out of stones.)
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To: Pharmboy
Hope the diggers avoid Wall Street.

*rimshot!*

3 posted on 01/23/2006 4:01:53 AM PST by martin_fierro (GO STILLERS!!!)
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To: Pharmboy
The second wall was discovered in late December, and transit officials were concerned that it could prompt the Federal Transit Administration, which is paying for the new station, to halt the project.

Since they're using federal money, don't they have to comply with the National Historic Preservation Act? And if so, who determines compliance, the feds or the locals?

4 posted on 01/23/2006 4:02:28 AM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: SunkenCiv

GGG PING


5 posted on 01/23/2006 4:05:16 AM PST by uglybiker (Iraqis have purple on their fingers. Liberals have brown on their thumbs.)
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To: Pharmboy

Correct. Water Street in downtown Manhattan was roughly where the original shoreline was located.


6 posted on 01/23/2006 4:06:00 AM PST by Clemenza (Divot: "You're Meshugah!" Bakshi: "I'm NOT Your Sugar!")
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To: Pharmboy

It reads, "Here may be found the last words of Joseph of Aramathia. He who is valiant and pure of spirit may find the holy grail in the Castle of Aaauuuggghhh..."


7 posted on 01/23/2006 4:08:15 AM PST by AndrewB
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To: Pharmboy

Circular bldg in top picture is Fort Clinton, in't it?

Built 1760-1770, or was it after the the War/before 1812?


8 posted on 01/23/2006 4:14:50 AM PST by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: Pharmboy

Would Robert Moses worry about some old wall? Naw, he'd blast through it!


9 posted on 01/23/2006 4:25:15 AM PST by durasell (!)
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To: Pharmboy
"...since ships from Europe would drop their ballast (stones and soil) as they came closer to shore so they would ride higher in the water and get near to shore. This natural landfill was therefore made of European soil."

Very interesting. That probably happened at a lot of places, huh?

10 posted on 01/23/2006 4:50:53 AM PST by blam
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To: Bookmaestro

just a fun article


11 posted on 01/23/2006 4:52:47 AM PST by fooman (Get real with Kim Jung Mentally Ill about proliferation)
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To: AndrewB
It reads, "Here may be found the last words of Joseph of Aramathia. He who is valiant and pure of spirit may find the holy grail in the Castle of Aaauuuggghhh..."

I thought it was pronounced: "Aaaaaarrrrgghhhh". You know, more from the back of the throat.

12 posted on 01/23/2006 4:55:12 AM PST by SlowBoat407 (The best stuff happens just before the thread snaps.)
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To: Pharmboy

I will never understand this.

The wall has been buried 200 years, and nobody knew about it. All of a sudden it is discovered and becomes "Historically Significant".

If it hadn't been discovered, would history be flawed? Will history now be significantly improved? And, do they plan on uncovering the rest of the wall, so historians can gloat?

Its a WALL!! Not like a historically significant landfill. /SARC


13 posted on 01/23/2006 5:01:32 AM PST by Lokibob (Spelling and typos are copyrighted. Please do not use.)
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To: Pharmboy
Surely such a project will run into an Indian burial ground or a slave burial ground and grind to a halt.

Of course if they run into a Christian burial ground they can keep on building right through it.... :-(
14 posted on 01/23/2006 5:04:15 AM PST by cgbg (MSM and Democratic treason--fifty years and counting...)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

"Circular bldg in top picture is Fort Clinton, in't it?

Built 1760-1770, or was it after the the War/before 1812?"

No, Fort Clinton (named after Governor DeWitt Clinton) is in Central Park.

The building you are referring to was originally built on mainland Manhattan and was called Fort George. It was demolished in the 1790's and replaced by the West Battery, built on a man-made island offshore around 1810 or 1811.

That is the circular "castle" you see in the 1812 depiction. Here's where you made your error: within a decade or two, West Battery became known as Castle Clinton.

Eventually, of course, the surrounding water was filled in and Castle Clinton still sits on the property known as Battery Park.

BTW, the Sphere that sat in the Plaza of the WTC, which was split and partially crushed when the towers fell, still stands on the grounds of Battery Park as a memorial.


15 posted on 01/23/2006 5:27:32 AM PST by StatenIsland
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To: blam

Indeed it likely happened at all of the early colonial ports such as Boston and Charleston, SC, but I only can vouch for a process that began when NYC was still Niew Amsterdam and continued through its early years as New York.


16 posted on 01/23/2006 5:48:28 AM PST by Pharmboy (The stone age didn't end because they ran out of stones.)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
From here


Did you know...that Battery Park's Castle Clinton was originally built as a fort to defend New York Harbor from the British in the War of 1812? Additionally, it first stood on an island 200 feet from shore, until a landfill later connected it to the mainland. Designed by John McComb Jr. and Jonathan Williams, the red sandstone, circular fort was never used for military purposes. Instead, it became Castle Garden entertainment center in 1824, and reached its peak in 1850 when it hosted the U.S. debut of Swedish chanteuse Jenny Lind. Since that time, Castle Clinton has functioned as an opera house, an aquarium, and a processing center for more than 8 million immigrants. It was designated a national monument in 1946, and now serves as the ticket center for ferries to Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty. Inside are dioramas of Lower Manhattan in 1812, 1886, and 1941.

17 posted on 01/23/2006 6:17:22 AM PST by Pharmboy (The stone age didn't end because they ran out of stones.)
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To: Pharmboy

bfl


18 posted on 01/23/2006 6:24:59 AM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: blam

"Very interesting. That probably happened at a lot of places, huh?"

Soil was pretty useful to our ancestors. Back when they were building the Dakota, in NYC, they were also excavating for Central Park and the builders of the Dakota used the soil from the park to pack into the floors of the Dakota to muffle sound, 14"-18" ifirc.

I have often thought it might be interesting to sift thru this stuff in the floors and on the riverbed--God only knows what you'd find, as the earth holds a lot of secrets.


19 posted on 01/23/2006 6:41:54 AM PST by TalBlack
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To: StatenIsland
BTW, the Sphere that sat in the Plaza of the WTC, which was split and partially crushed when the towers fell, still stands on the grounds of Battery Park as a memorial.

===============================================

Coming out of the pit late on the 13th (right before that storm hit) we had to stop because they thought they heard a survivor. By chance we (son and I) were standing at the highest point in the pile. We had the chance to look around in silence and take it all in. The dented sphere was about 100 yards north of where we stood. It was the first time we noticed it. To see it virtually intact in the middle of the destruction was eerie and inspiring.

20 posted on 01/23/2006 7:06:43 AM PST by wtc911 (You can't get there from here)
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