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Digging for a Subway, but Hitting a Wall, Again
NY Times ^ | January 23, 2006 | PATRICK McGEEHAN

Posted on 01/23/2006 3:51:20 AM PST by Pharmboy

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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

The reviews for Moses are still mixed. It's possible to meet people of "a certain age" from the Bronx and Brooklyn who are still bitter.


41 posted on 01/23/2006 10:25:35 AM PST by durasell (!)
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To: Pharmboy
Let me know if they find any Martians.


42 posted on 01/23/2006 10:48:08 AM PST by atomicpossum (Replies must follow approved guidelines or you will be kill-filed without appeal.)
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To: durasell
I understand the bitterness, but he was apparently incorruptible and a glutton for work. He was a superb engineer and manager.
43 posted on 01/23/2006 12:12:21 PM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (NYT Headline: 'Protocols of the Learned Elders of CBS: Fake But Accurate, Experts Say.')
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

He was a city planner more than an engineer. As for "incorruptible," he tended to corrupt other people.


44 posted on 01/23/2006 12:22:09 PM PST by durasell (!)
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To: durasell

Living in Massachusetts for the last 25 years, we could us a planner and manager like Moses. If you recall NYC prior to Mayor Lindsey, it really did work very well, especially considering the level of congestion.


45 posted on 01/23/2006 12:29:23 PM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (NYT Headline: 'Protocols of the Learned Elders of CBS: Fake But Accurate, Experts Say.')
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

NYC always worked well, more or less It still does, more or less. The only thing that changes is the volume of political noise.

The fight Moses could not win was cross-crossing the city with highways. He ran into a brick wall of protests down in the west village.


46 posted on 01/23/2006 12:33:48 PM PST by durasell (!)
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To: Pharmboy

Thank you for the interesting article on another wall found
in Battery Park.
Since my Dutch, Huguenot & English ancestors were living
in that neighorhood in 1600s - 1700s I feel close to what is going on there.

Also your interesting comments on the ballast from Europe
left, expanding the shoreline.
On the flip side of that. Here in San Diego at the enterence to the harbor, Ballast Point -
named for the cobblestones loaded as ballast to replace the goods delivered here in the early years.
Many of those San Diego stones ended up lining the streets
of Boston.


47 posted on 01/23/2006 2:44:18 PM PST by SoCalPol (Cowards Cut and Run, Marines Never Do)
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To: SoCalPol
Indeed...thanks for your comments related to San Diego and ship's ballast--very interesting.

They have pretty good records of the first Europeans in Niew Amsterdam, so you can likely trace your family if you haven't already. When the first permanent Dutch settlement came to the southern tip of Manhattan Island (1626), most were French-speaking Walloons, so the first few years saw French as the most common language spoken there. Twenty years later, it was reported that 18 languages were spoken in Niew Amsterdam (Spanish, English, Dutch, Flemish, French, German, Swedish, various African languages, Italian, and others).

48 posted on 01/23/2006 3:12:53 PM PST by Pharmboy (The stone age didn't end because they ran out of stones.)
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To: Pharmboy
"It's a historic wall of some kind."

I love his sense of humor.

49 posted on 01/23/2006 3:14:05 PM PST by firebrand
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To: durasell

Moses almost ruined Greenwich Village and Fire Island. He seemed drawn to quaintness and creative in his plots to destroy it.


50 posted on 01/23/2006 3:19:05 PM PST by firebrand
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To: firebrand

I don't think he was drawn to "quaintness" but, rather, didn't consider it. He had a very -- for lack of a better description -- a "practical" mind. He was also, seemingly, obsessed with cars as a mode of transportation.


51 posted on 01/23/2006 3:23:13 PM PST by durasell (!)
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To: uglybiker

Yeah, I think so. I'll ping when I get home (and get the list updated).


52 posted on 01/23/2006 4:35:38 PM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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To: firebrand

Missed that...thanks. LOL!


53 posted on 01/23/2006 4:45:10 PM PST by Pharmboy (The stone age didn't end because they ran out of stones.)
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To: durasell
One of the most beautiful art deco buildings in NY--commissioned by Moses--the Marine Air Terminal building at LaGuardia:


54 posted on 01/23/2006 4:53:53 PM PST by Pharmboy (The stone age didn't end because they ran out of stones.)
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To: Lokibob

>Its a WALL!! Not like a historically significant landfill.

It's not just any wall.

If it's a man-made wall, it was build by our European forefathers and, therefore, it must be preserved as an extention of Europe in the New World.


55 posted on 01/23/2006 4:55:01 PM PST by TheBrotherhood
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To: XRdsRev

>To put the icing on the cake, our entire archaeological crew was cursed by a self appointed African priest from North Carolina haha.

I remember reading in newspapers of those threats by blacks. The funny thing is that most of the bodies were non-blacks.

Be prepared! Be ready!


56 posted on 01/23/2006 5:06:51 PM PST by TheBrotherhood
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To: Neets; lysie; Molly Pitcher; Miss Marple; Redleg Duke; gulfcoast6; ...

Thought you might find this interesting.


57 posted on 01/23/2006 5:18:30 PM PST by kayak (Praying for MozartLover's son, all our military, and our President every day!)
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To: kayak

Oh thanks!!!


58 posted on 01/23/2006 5:21:20 PM PST by Neets
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To: Pharmboy

"Also, it might interest some of you to note that the shoreline of lower Manhattan expanded in the early years since ships from Europe would drop their ballast (stones and soil) as they came closer to shore so they would ride higher in the water and get near to shore. This natural landfill was therefore made of European soil."

I know that a little of this went on. But wasn't it just replacing some stones with what they were then going to carry.

What I mean is, it's not like ships today, which use water ballast, and which do let it out. (Which is how the Zebra mussel is being transplanted all around the world.)

I don't believe ships of the period had the ability to dump ballast. Am I wrong?


59 posted on 01/23/2006 5:24:16 PM PST by Sam Hill
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To: Pharmboy

One of the reasons why we could argue about him for years -- he accomplished a lot of genuine good, but was also the architect and driving force behind of some really bad ideas.


60 posted on 01/23/2006 5:28:10 PM PST by durasell (!)
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