[Rebel_Ace]

"Maybe you've noticed I haven't made an argument yet?"

Earlier you explicitly asked:

"Really? We observe other solar systems forming?"

This interrogative questions the other poster's position, and implies the following:

(1) You are either un-aware of the current state of astronomical observations, - or -

(2) You don't accept the principle that you can make observations of multiple objects and phenomena at different stages in order to deduce the progress of a SINGLE object or phenomenon where the timescales are far greater than human lifespans allow.

It's just not a good argument.

"...it's obvious that huge canyons can form, or have been formed, because we see them..."

You can say the same thing about Stars and Planets. We see them as well.

"...the Grand Canyon was formed by the ground rising up around this little river..."

My geological example had to do with EROSION, which is the process by which soil and rock are REMOVED by water. I honestly don't know where you are getting the "ground rising up" reference.

Again, not a good argument.

[ml/nj]

My geological example had to do with EROSION, which is the process by which soil and rock are REMOVED by water. I honestly don't know where you are getting the "ground rising up" reference.

It's the conventional wisdom in geology. E.g.:

Can rivers run uphill to get across mountains?

There are many locations throughout the western U.S. where rivers have cut canyons through mountain ranges instead of taking easier, lower routes around them. For example, the Wasatch Range near Salt Lake City is of recent origin and is still rising. Yet, rivers such as the Weber, Ogden, and Provo cut right through the range producing canyons thousands of feet deep. We can conclude that the rivers were in place first; and as the mountains rose, the rivers acted as stationary band saws cutting deep groves into the rising block. There are examples where even arroyos have cut canyons through rising blocks. For example, east of Albuquerque, NM, highway I-40 uses Tijeras Canyon cut by Tijeras Arroyo through the Sandia Mountains. This leads to the following important rule. An established river (or stream or even an arroyo) is frequently capable of maintaining its path through a rising mountain range.[Emphasis added}

I found this at http://www.durangobill.com/PaleoriversPart1.html after doing a Google search on Grand/Canyon/formation.

Next time you decide you want to play maybe you could try to inform yourself about what experts believe before you comment. As for Astronomy, it's always been a hobby of mine. I already owned a telescope 50 years ago. I took a couple of college courses when I was a genuine student and have sat in on a couple more as an ersatz student. Unless astronomy is your profession, it is unlikely that you have greater knowledge of the general subject than I do. It is my opinion that each theory in the collection of theories of solar system formation is quite tenuous. (The fact that there are multiple theories is a clue that most/none of them are any good.) As such these theories are not evidence for anything, which was my point.

ML/NJ