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To: Mariner

What to be skeptical of is when you see reports of (Insert Third World Country Here)'s air force in an exercise kicking the butts of American F-15s and F-16s, like in India a few months back.....those exercises are basically rigged, the US forces have their hands tied behind their backs - serves two purposes -1) The local third world country gets confidence and favorable pub 2) The Air Force, which is notoriously good at getting money, gets more ammo to ask for LOTS of F-22s, which is their main procurement goal.

In THIS case, however - believe it - a well-trained modern sub like this Swedish one is a very, very, very difficult opponent.

Really all modern subs from any country with a modicum of training is incredibly dangerous.

There actually were no "submarines" in World War II, other than the very late war German Electroboats, hydrogen peroxide subs, etc. - they were all "submersibles" - spent the vast majority of time on the surface.

Other than one shot in the Falklands, we've never really seen what subs can do now - and they've advanced faster than antisubmarine warfare advanced. In any large-scale naval war I suspect modern well-trained subs of any kind would rule the seas.

Fortunately, few of our potential opponents are likely as well-trained as the crew of the Gotland. It's very smart for the US Navy to lease those guys to practice agains (and I have a feeling the average Swedish seaman isn't violently protesting being stationed in San Diego - I wonder if they brought over their familes and put them up in San Diego, though.)


23 posted on 10/20/2006 12:31:50 PM PDT by Strategerist (Those who know what's best for us must rise and save us from ourselves)
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To: Strategerist
So I deduce they can present a substantial threat in the littorals...narrow passages etc.

Do they have the "legs" to present a sustained threat in open water? Seems to me if they have to surface, even after a month, they become targets. And CERTAINLY they'll have to refuel, either from a surface ship or in port. Again, they become targets.

I can see how they would present a short-term threat to surface shipping...perhaps even warships. But over the longer term, nothing but targets.

24 posted on 10/20/2006 12:38:05 PM PDT by Mariner
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To: Strategerist

Lets also hope that Sweeden isn't going goin to just sell these things to just any Tom, Dick, or Muhammad.


28 posted on 10/20/2006 12:46:37 PM PDT by AFreeBird (If American "cowboy diplomacy" did not exist, it would be necessary to invent it.)
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