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To: SampleMan
No. I've stated that your employer has the right to set the requirements of employment, and that you have the right to say no. As for company liability, you already stated that it was a company car and that the company requires you to travel. That makes the company liable.

As if they just decide to do this out of thin air. They were coerced by the Feds.

So don't work for that employer if you don't like it. They write the checks, so they, not you, decide what is reasonable. It frankly has nothing to do with the substance being legal or illegal. Won't you get fired for having a legal amount of alcohol in your system while you're driving the company car?

That's your types answer to everything, don't work for that company if you don;t like it. How about if they don't like your internet postings on your free time? Of if you own a gun? Or smoke cigarettes? This desire by people like you to turn companies in quasi-government enforcement agencies is absurd. BTW, 0.04 BAC is grounds for termination at my company. That's "a beer" for many people. Oh yeah, don't work for them if you don't like it....

Accidents due to smoking pot and/or drinking alcohol are low because employers don't tolerate it.

No, wrong. Alcohol is the only substance that even rates on the chart for accidents, and again drug testing does not test for impairment. Companies that do not have stringent drug testing policies do not have any measurable increas in workplace accidents. You can do your research to prove that.

Hogwash. Like saying that if you let the government decide who can't vote (felons), then "they" can also dictate who can vote, and of course then they can also dictate who you must vote for. Just a nonsensical diatribe of nonsequitor logic.

Crapulence. Government does tell you what you can't ingest, does tell you what you can ingest, and does tell you what you must ingest. Now, at this juncture, most of these "rules" are fairly reasonable. For now. When has government ever voluntarily restrained its' expansion of powers? (Hint: You can't smoke IN A BAR anymore)

Again, hogwash. Morphine was a tremendous problem as soon as it was available. The fact is that very few drugs other than alcohol were available to anyone in the U.S. before about 1865. As soon as they became available, their irresponsible use became a problem. How exactly do you explain the issue of opium in China? Did they only imagine that there was a problem?

No, you're wrong. Morphine and opium dens were a problem, but restricted to certain segments and areas of society. Creating black markets always is worse than the previous paradigm. Always. The "cure" was far, far worse than the "disease". As soon as it became prohibited, then the problems really started. Just like with alcohol prohibition. As for the motivations of drug prohibitionists, read up on a "gentleman" named Anslinger, and what his motivations were for his war on pot.

In fact, there are many fine scholary works on these subjects; perhaps you should read some of them so you can make some rational points. So far, you've scored a zero.

Good night, and have a busybody-ing tomorrow.
82 posted on 10/23/2006 9:32:23 PM PDT by motzman (Giants Crush Cowboys!!!)
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To: motzman
As if they just decide to do this out of thin air. They were coerced by the Feds.

A requirement of employment does not constitute coercion. Your argument also conveniently ignores hundreds of thousands of employers that have no connection to any government work that also see fit to put substance use limits as a condition of employment. As a tax payer, I'm all for requiring people who get public money to be free of debilitating chemical influence at work. You can argue about what constitutes "debilitating influence", but your line of argument that anything that is otherwise legal cannot be restricted by a private or public employer is silly. Of course illegal substances are no different.

That's your types answer to everything, don't work for that company if you don;t like it. How about if they don't like your internet postings on your free time? Of if you own a gun? Or smoke cigarettes? This desire by people like you to turn companies in quasi-government enforcement agencies is absurd. BTW, 0.04 BAC is grounds for termination at my company. That's "a beer" for many people. Oh yeah, don't work for them if you don't like it....

Imagine that, my stock answer is free will. Grow up, stop whining that daddy won't let you smoke weed, and get another job. So one beer on the job can get you fired? Imagine that! Welcome to the real world, where employers can expect you to not drink for the eight hours you are on the clock. As for my turning companies into quasi-government enforcement agencies, you have a bad case of "the man's oppressing me". Let me repeat very simply. If you don't like your employer's rules find another job, or put your own capital at risk.

Companies that do not have stringent drug testing policies do not have any measurable increas in workplace accidents. You can do your research to prove that.

Wrong again. When the military started testing accidents dropped substantially. But again you're arguing that companies shouldn't do it. Good for you, argue all you want, but that argument is completely separate from stating that companies don't have the right to do it. You just don't seem capable of understanding that the employer has the right to set terms of employment, even if they are unwise or overly stringent. Its VOLUNTARY on your part. But you desire to swirl a stew of apples and oranges to try and force your employer to accept your pot smoking.

Government does tell you what you can't ingest, does tell you what you can ingest, and does tell you what you must ingest.

Please tell us what the government tells you that you must ingest? Was there a black helicopter involved? I think your hysteria just flew you out the window.

Morphine and opium dens were a problem, but restricted to certain segments and areas of society.

Restricted how? It wasn't at all restricted except by terms of employment, making it hard to continue the habit without a job (which you are against by the way).

Creating black markets always is worse than the previous paradigm.

So in your view, it would be a safer world if C4, small pox virus, and plutonium sales were over the counter, because we are just creating a lucritive black market with restrictions. Or does your logic only apply to things that you like to do?

I don't need to read drug literature to know my mind. As an employer, I'll set the expectations. As a worker bee, you can go somewhere else if you don't like it. I hear High Times is hiring.

88 posted on 10/24/2006 5:47:57 AM PDT by SampleMan (Do not dispute the peacefulness of Islam, so as not to send Muslims into violent outrage.)
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