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To: ichabod1
I HAVE wondered why parents who homeschool don't automatically band together and specialize, each focusing on a different subject. It would seem that charter schools would naturally flow out of such an arrangement. I'm pretty sure it happens, but it seems like it would be a natural outcome.

Now that isn't a bad idea...however, it has been my experience that homeschooling parents have the hubris to believe they can really do it all and their arrogance wouldn't allow someone more qualified to touch their kids' brains--(consequently, when we teachers get their children back they are unprepared and over challenged).

18 posted on 11/27/2006 7:14:13 AM PST by meandog (These are the times that try men's souls!)
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To: meandog

Oh, so you agree with the assessment of the writer.


27 posted on 11/27/2006 7:17:13 AM PST by ichabod1 (Democracy = Anarchy)
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To: meandog

"consequently, when we teachers get their children back they are unprepared and over challenged"

I guess that's why my nephews and nieces that were home schooled have all scored extremely well on the SAT and have ALL gotten scholarships and gone on to the universities of their choice.

I was originally against home schooling for them, but when I saw the curriculum I was truly impressed.

There are indeed some parents that don't have the time or discipline to do this, but some do, and do it very well.


50 posted on 11/27/2006 7:25:17 AM PST by EEDUDE
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To: meandog
Now that isn't a bad idea...however, it has been my experience that homeschooling parents have the hubris to believe they can really do it all and their arrogance wouldn't allow someone more qualified to touch their kids' brains--(consequently, when we teachers get their children back they are unprepared and over challenged).

Then why does every study show that homeschoolers do so much better on standardized tests (on average) than their peers in public school?

51 posted on 11/27/2006 7:25:38 AM PST by Our man in washington
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To: meandog
however, it has been my experience that homeschooling parents have the hubris to believe they can really do it all and their arrogance wouldn't allow someone more qualified to touch their kids' brains--(consequently, when we teachers get their children back they are unprepared and over challenged).

Huh? Statistically (being a teacher, I assume you understand that statistical results are more important in assessing policy than your personal experiences), homeschooled students score 20 points higher on standardized tests. Statistically, if they join a regular school after being homeschooled, they must wait a year for the rest of the students to catch up...a whole year before they are challenged.
56 posted on 11/27/2006 7:27:51 AM PST by newguy357
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To: meandog; ichabod1
Of course there are homeschool co-ops that address this problem.

I was in contact with 3 or 4 of them in our area when we were thinking about continuing my son's homeschooling into the high school years.

I never saw the "hubris" you mention - I never met a parent who was reluctant to have an expert in the more difficult subjects. In fact, you would be amazed at the qualifications of some of the folks in these co-ops. Just one example -- a retired Army Colonel of Engineers with a doctorate in electrical engineering was teaching the kids calculus, along with the principles of navigation and applying math to "real world" problems like moving dirt and building amplifiers . . . and the kids were having a ball!

What he wasn't doing was trying to influence the kids politically or socially . . . which is what many homeschool parents are trying to avoid. It's not just the lack of competence that annoys parents, it's the ideological subtext that's injected into so many classrooms. To paraphrase, "shut up and teach!"

And it may be hubristic of me, but I would put my academic qualifications up against those of any public high school teacher. I'm not qualified to teach math or science at the high school level, but I could teach English, English lit. or history at college level, and if I had a chance to brush up I could teach up to intermediate level German or beginning Latin.

58 posted on 11/27/2006 7:28:06 AM PST by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: meandog
Now that isn't a bad idea...however, it has been my experience that homeschooling parents have the hubris to believe they can really do it all and their arrogance wouldn't allow someone more qualified to touch their kids' brains--(consequently, when we teachers get their children back they are unprepared and over challenged).

And, for those out there who don't understand the meaning of "hubris", the above quote is a fine example.

60 posted on 11/27/2006 7:28:25 AM PST by LexBaird (98% satisfaction guaranteed. There's just no pleasing some people.)
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To: meandog
Now that isn't a bad idea...however, it has been my experience that homeschooling parents have the hubris to believe they can really do it all and their arrogance wouldn't allow someone more qualified to touch their kids' brains--(consequently, when we teachers get their children back they are unprepared and over challenged).

Hmm. You're onto something. When you take education out of the market economy it is likely to produce some negative effects. Whether the venue is public or private, it doesn't matter. Either way, some alternate form of competition will be in play. In American society, trust is reserved for the professiona

61 posted on 11/27/2006 7:28:43 AM PST by cornelis
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To: meandog
Not true with most home schooler parents! My whole family, cousins, aunts, grandmother have been school teachers. All are big proponents of home schooling.

Our grandchildren go to several "tutors" that specialize in whatever subject that their parents don't.

One granddaughter has graduated from college with highest honors and double degrees.

Another already had many college hours under her belt before darkening the college doors.
I could go on and on.
69 posted on 11/27/2006 7:31:42 AM PST by Coldwater Creek (The TERRORIST are the ones who won the midterm elections!)
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To: meandog; scripter
--(consequently, when we teachers get their children back they are unprepared and over challenged).

i think the problem is you're just not used to students who can think for themselves... i'm sure this makes your job much more difficult... then you have to expend much energy just to "dumb them down" so they can be at the same level as all your other students... must be hard...

70 posted on 11/27/2006 7:32:24 AM PST by latina4dubya
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To: meandog

wow, how do you really feel about that. I don't home school, but I have no doubt that the average parent can home school their kids to Jr Hi school with better than average results. Not sure I would want to continue after that.

Consider that your personal examples could be worse cases that stand out in your mind. How do you think your examples would stand next to average students in say Washington DC, St Louis, or Kansas City?

One size doesn't fit all.


88 posted on 11/27/2006 7:42:44 AM PST by zek157
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To: meandog

Did you forget your /sarc tag or are you that hostile to homeschoolers that you think we are all just filled with "hubris" ?

We homeschoolers call them co-ops, and most of us use them.

I guess our kids are unprepared for socialistic, mindless drivel to be rammed into their heads as real academics.


98 posted on 11/27/2006 7:46:24 AM PST by cinives (On some planets what I do is considered normal.)
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To: meandog

Hubby and I homeschool our children. Between the two of us we have undergraduate or graduate degrees in math, statistics, physics, international relations and economics. We have graduated summa cum laude, magna cum laude, and one of us is a Phi Beta Kappa. We both have extensive, real-world experience working in these fields, which we can share with our children.

But since neither of us has a teaching degree I guess it's arrogance to believe that we can better educate our children than a series of education majors who have spent the majority of their lives in a classroom.

We are not alone. Most homeschoolers I know are highly educated. Those who aren't are highly dedicated and seek assistance when needed.

My son went to Kindergarten. His teacher was barely literate. Many education majors are at the bottom of the college barrel. But they're the professionals, while we're the hubristic amateurs?


132 posted on 11/27/2006 7:57:12 AM PST by LadyNavyVet
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To: meandog; ichabod1

Educate yourselves:

http://www.pathco-op.org/

And dog -- neither you or your NEA union brothers will EVER get a SECOND to corrupt my children's minds. BTW, the last time we tested in California, my 10 year old daughter was at high school freshman level across the board.


134 posted on 11/27/2006 7:57:41 AM PST by L,TOWM (Liberals, The Other White Meat [This is some nasty...])
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To: meandog
Actually, there ARE homeschool parents who are former teachers and they set up classes for other home schooled children. I was home schooled, and there was one former English teacher who had an English class, which many of my friends went to, there was a former art teacher, she had a class as well, and there were a few others.

So it DOES happen, not all home schoolers think that anyone else teaching their children is bad/dangerous/whatever.
I have seen some parents who do stupid things with their children (keeping their social activities limited, even some who thought that they shouldn't FORCE their children to learn ANYTHING, they thought the child should choose when and what to learn) but for the most part the other home schooled people that I know are very normal, very, very social, and very smart.

It all depends on the parent.
144 posted on 11/27/2006 8:00:50 AM PST by The Unnamed Chick
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To: meandog; ichabod1
HAVE wondered why parents who homeschool don't automatically band together and specialize, each focusing on a different subject. It would seem that charter schools would naturally flow out of such an arrangement. I'm pretty sure it happens, but it seems like it would be a natural outcome. Now that isn't a bad idea...however, it has been my experience that homeschooling parents have the hubris to believe they can really do it all and their arrogance wouldn't allow someone more qualified to touch their kids' brains--(consequently, when we teachers get their children back they are unprepared and over challenged).

This actually is done a lot. People form co-ops. They take their children to classes in the community. Sometimes the parents will learn something, then teach it to their children.

152 posted on 11/27/2006 8:05:18 AM PST by HungarianGypsy
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To: meandog
We have home schooled our 3 children. Our youngest never has seen the inside of a public school as a student. As most home schoolers know there are co-ops and local organizations were students can get together for socializing one ex is team sports.

When we started we had no idea how to go about it, but we learned. It not so hard.
We had a young lady come over one day to ask about homeschooling her child. We showed her what we were doing and she loved it. Told us her son would never go to public school.... she is a 9th grade math teacher.

My oldest went to socialist school err public school till his 8th yr. He also was on the honor roll never had a problem, we thought everything was great. Then one day his CAT scores came back really bad, we had a talk with his teacher who played down the bad scores, ie he just had a bad day.
Well later we realized his math has not even 5th grade level, nor was his reading. Turns out the reason he made the honor roll was because he is a quite boy never did anything bad they just pushed him along.

After one yr of home schooling his math and reading level were on the 12th level. He would be in 9th grade in PS.
Bottom line the teachers didn't teach they just babysat. Oh and this wasn't one school. He started PS in NY then we moved to NC, were we first heard on homeschooling.
So I say if you even consider it... do it

161 posted on 11/27/2006 8:09:02 AM PST by Gone_Postal (There's plenty of room for all God's creatures..right next to the mashed potatoes)
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To: meandog
"Now that isn't a bad idea...however, it has been my experience that homeschooling parents have the hubris to believe they can really do it all and their arrogance wouldn't allow someone more qualified to touch their kids' brains--(consequently, when we teachers get their children back they are unprepared and over challenged)."

At it again, huh, meandog?

Almost everyone I know actually utilizes co-op teaching situations, paid classes, tutors, etc, for some or all of their children's high school educations. On the other hand, my neighbor down the street didn't, and his son is attending a public university on full scholarship right now.

And he's a hottie, too - not some weirdo you imagine. :)

No, it is NOT rocket science to teach elementary school, subjects, and pretty easy to teach a lot of middle school subjects as well, since most children by that age are quite independent if they've been homeschooling a while, know how to study, and know how to research.

And homechoolrs do

Scouting

Little theater

Dance classes

Soccer

Baseball

Swim team

Homeschool clubs like literature club or chess club

Homeschoolers take classes at our local science museum, where they are much favored over the ill-behaved public school children

YMCA Youth and government programs

Church activities

Summer camp

And MUCH MORE

247 posted on 11/27/2006 9:09:32 AM PST by Texas_shutterbug
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To: meandog
Hi, Meandog! If you haven't already done so, please check out posts 34, 36, 38, 45, 64, 187, and 188, now clickable for your convenience.

Many, many homeschoolers work cooperatively to get the best possible homeschool instruction for their kids.

You're very welcome.

371 posted on 11/27/2006 1:17:22 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Sorry: Tag-line presently at the dry cleaners. Please find a suitable bumper-sticker instead.)
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To: meandog
Now that isn't a bad idea...however, it has been my experience that homeschooling parents have the hubris to believe they can really do it all and their arrogance wouldn't allow someone more qualified to touch their kids' brains--(consequently, when we teachers get their children back they are unprepared and over challenged).

Are you a custodian too?

470 posted on 11/28/2006 8:18:21 AM PST by Osage Orange (The old/liberal/socialist media is the most ruthless and destructive enemy of this country.)
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To: meandog
when we teachers get their children back

What do you mean "get them back?"

What do you think you are, some kind of zookeeper? Talk about arrogance.

594 posted on 11/28/2006 6:53:28 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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