Pagan Christmas ritual pressed on young kids

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | December 8, 2006 | b Unruh

[Leifur]

Here in Iceland Christmas has allways been called Jól (same word as Yule), but it is still mostly a christian celebration. I though know of some leftwinged (mostly) atheist who celebrate jól without recognising it as a christian celebration, but as an older solstice celebration.

But thankfully our schools allow children to be taught the proper christian roots of Christmas and f.e. are in many school windows put up decorations celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ. Best wishes and good luck resurecting christianity to its proper place. Just do not do as we and establish a state church, nothing is more corrupting as to much government influence over religion.

[CharlesWayneCT]

If you choose to have a living or a harvested evergreen tree as part of your holiday decorations, call it a solstice tree and decorate it with pagan symbols

If you have an artificial tree, it's like spitting on the Pagan gods themselves, and you will burn in, well, I don't know where bad pagans go burn in......

Another reason to have a good fake christmas tree. :-)

[fredhead]

Is Paganism a religion?

If so, then this violates the First Amendment AS DEFINED BY LIBERALS!!!

[CharlesWayneCT]

Yes. The christians sued because they were being excluded, and they thought it would be great if they could send religious notices home.

Now that another religion is taking advantage of it, some aren't so sure they like the new rule.

What they want is for only the prefered religions to be allowed to send stuff home with the kids, not all the other "odd-ball" religions.

It's the downside to pushing what is really the appropriate position of the state being neutral regarding religion, the state can't then discriminate between religions any more than it discriminated AGAINST a religion.

Some people are happy with a little mixing of church and state so long as it's THEIR church that gets mixed, and not some OTHER church.

[50sDad]

The flyer in question is from a group called NatureSpirit from the Thomas Jefferson Memorial Church, a Unitarian Universalist congregation that also teaches "Exploring Islam," "Women Weaving Wisdom," "Discovering the Healing Power of Dreams" and other religious subjects.

There's your problem.

My eldest brother is a college chemistry professor, extremely smart, and a Unitarian. I don't get it. How can you believe in a religion where 2+2=5, or maybe 3.4, or possibly an attractive shade of blue, or "whatever you think it is" and integrate that with being a scientific person?

[Cap'n Crunch]

Gummint skewl ping.

Come and celebrate your pagan roots.

[NeoCaveman]

Yule have to see this, to belive this.

[JNL]

Exactly, slippery slope and all that.

[ElectricStrawberry]

"In order to allow the YMCA to tell you about their soccer league, or the Boy Scouts to tell you about their new troop, we have to allow all nonprofits," she said. "That's why we're seeing this flyer."

So, if the YMCA want to talk about a soccer league, they have to allow the UUers to talk their religions?

...in Virginia???

[True-Stu]

What do you get when you cross a Unitarian Universalist with a Jehovah's Witness?....

Someone who comes to your door for no apparent reason!

[Mad Dawg]

There was a mixed marriage next door. A KKK - type married a UU. My family is Catholic.

Yesterday somebody burned a question mark in our front yard.

[CharlesWayneCT]

Yes, because a christian group sued claiming that if the school allows those other groups to send things home with the kids, they can't discriminate against a religious group. THe 4th US circuit court of appeals agreed with the group, and now if the school allows ANY outside group to send things home, they have to allow ALL outside groups to do so.

So either we are going to hurt all the other organizations that have used this method of communication, or we are going to have to allow Wiccans and Universalists and even Muslims to send stuff home with the kids.

Which frankly I don't see as a big deal, they aren't really TEACHING it in the school, they are just sending announcements home, the parents can do with them what they want.

The groups could do the same thing by mail if they wanted, and it isn't costing the schools anything to allow this, so unless people are really afraid about their kids even knowing about the EXISTANCE of stuff, I'm not sure what the problem is.

But in any case, if you are going to allow everybody to use a service, you really do have to allow EVERYBODY to do so.

[silverleaf]

It's a FLYER- not a school sanctioned event. As long as ALL groups can pass out flyers- including Christian groups-then people need to get a grip. Sounds like good fodder for kids to take home to discuss with their parents. I would use this to discuss with my kids how the powers of darkness try to appeal to people of faith, to subvert their faith by using "reason".

[silverleaf]

LOL!!!

[Moderate right-winger]

pagan goddesses= modern day feminists. These "strong" women are the harbingers of evil. They are the messengers of Satan.

[AppyPappy]

Unitarianism gives complete control of the Almighty to the individual. That's why people like it. They can create their own god.

[ElectricStrawberry]

I'm with ya....I don't see the big deal (of course, I'm not religious, so there it is). Just seemed like a very strange manner to get to that law. I wonder if it applies equally to NAMBLA?(/sarc)

[martianna]

Perhaps...but whether the tree is fake or real, the real question is - what does the tree represent? Yes, its a tradition...as are the cards we send, gift giving, decorating in the colors of red and green, and the mistletoe. But are these traditions rooted in the pagan celebration, Winter Solstice? If not, where did they come from? Since they are not mentioned in the Bible, how did they become associated with the birth of Christ?

I have a Jehovah's Witness friend who does not celebrate Christmas (or birthdays even!) because of their pagan roots. She says that celebrating such "traditions" takes away from the real meaning of Christmas - the birth of Christ. While I can appreciate her integrity and her devotion to her religion, I can't imagine not celebrating the season the way my family has always done and to her credit - she has never pressured me to do it her way.

Still, I do feel conflicted about the whole thing. From all I've read, my friend is correct. Many of our holiday celebrations come from ancient pagan celebrations. However, I do not believe these celebrations were rooted in evil or devil worship but were more nature-oriented. The pagans seemed to celebrated the changing seasons, fertility, generosity, etc etc. All good things as far as I'm concerned...

How did Pagans get such a bad reputation? According to their websites, they don't believe in the devil or hell. So how did they get the "devil worshipper" stamp?

One could argue that the Pagans were simply misunderstood and were generally good people. Thus celebrating their Winter Solstice traditions do no harm to anyone.

But if you believe the pagans were in fact "devil worshippers" then doesn't celebrating their traditions kind of make you a part of that? Or am I looking to deeply into this?

What do you tell your kids about Christmas traditions that are not in the Bible when they ask where they come from? Since I have two very inquisitive kids (Who ask WHY WHY WHY to everything!), I've found myself starting sentences with, "Well, some people believe...." and I suggest they form their own opinions.

Years ago, a very religious friend of mine sent via e-mail a story about the candy cane. The story claimed the origin of the candy cane came about as a form of identification among Christians during a time of persecution. Naturally curious, I checked into the story and found several factual errors. I sent her back an e-mail telling her what I'd found out and she actually got mad at me saying her pastor told her congregation that story in his sermon and she would continue to tell it to her children because it was a "nice story". Needless to say, I was really shocked. Hoping to open up a discussion with her, I asked her if it was OK to lie in the name of Jesus. She never answered me and we never discussed it again.

Anyway, my point is this:
God felt so strongly about bearing false witness - he put that in stone. I would think that telling your children that our Christmas traditions are rooted in Christ or even something as simple as passing along a false candy cane story is not only bearing false witness but also taking the Lord's name in vain. Would the Lord want to be credited with a Pagan celebration? I think not.

Perhaps this "Pagan Christmas Ritual" workshop will open up some sort of discussion between the kids who are allowed to attend, their parents and clergy.

Sorry this was so long - would appreciate your thoughts...

[CharlesWayneCT]

You are correct, paganists are not devil-worshippers, or witches either.