I've always thought she and Libby Custer were the two most beautiful women of the 19th century I've ever seen.
Posted on 04/27/2007 9:23:05 AM PDT by drzz
I got to go, but I agree with you and facts say so !
http://custer.over-blog.com/categorie-10017942.html
Yes, volley fire. And a number of those who were left in the valley, only to gain Reno Hill later, also heard volley fire. I recall one comment to the likes of "Custer must really be giving it to 'em", or some such wording. Again, I don't have much material at hand right now.
Have a good one. We should resume this thread when you return. It’s the most enjoyable one I’ve been on for a long time.
I can’t believe I haven’t run into a Custer ping list around here.
Green, send Trooper Martini for help, Yes I know he doesn't speak English goddamit, write a note. BTW, I agree with the War Department, send back the Spencers. Goddam waste of powder and shot. Pick off the savages at 400 yards with those Springfields, goddamit.
Green, where have you sent that fool Reno? Get him back here at once.
I have a picture book of Libbie as well as a first edition of “Boots & Saddles.”
Perhaps by irritating and rubbing my anti-Israel “friends” enough, I may create a pearl!
My hunch is that Custer was felled near or at the spot where Deep Coulee enters the Little Bighorn. There are at least two Indian accounts of this. Hump stated that it was at this spot that “the soldiers became confused”... and in all honesty, they would have to be by riding onto Custer Ridge instead of retreating back to Luce Ridge with the rest of the battalion.
I've always thought she and Libby Custer were the two most beautiful women of the 19th century I've ever seen.
Beautiful eyes!
Another beauty was Kate Sprague, daughter Salmon Chase, a member of Lincoln’s cabinet. Her face was pretty but her figure and sense of style were outstanding.
I first ran into that theory many years ago in my youth (MANY years ago!), in a book by David Huphreys Miller named Custer's Fall: The Native American Side of the Story".
I never really put much stock in it. Other Indian accounts, to my recollection (and that's why I'm going by...my library is mostly with my nephew at this time), somewhat dispute this, and other historians have made a case for Custer splitting his command into two wings and only one wing approaching the Little Big Horn. I side with those who believe it is unlikely that Custer would have accompanied this wing, leaving Hdqtrs with the wing on Luce Ridge. Also, the level and frequency of volley fire attested to by members of the Reno/Benteen commands, makes me discount the 'confusion' aspect of these accounts so early on in the battle.
Of course, we'll never know unless something monumental turns up from further archaeological excavations.
A further point against this is that the 'split wing' argument suggests that the wing near Deep Coulee ford returned to Calhoun Hill instead of Luce Ridge because that's where the other wing was moving to. Again, it's recollection, but I believe some of Curley's account supports this.
But then, who knows? It's stuff like this that makes this topic so interesting. Actually, one of the most intriguing aspects is the route Custer took to Luce Ridge. I'm still not sure that's been nailed down completely, and Richard Fox has planted some interesting speculation on whether a detail was sent ahead and reached Luce/Cartwright ridges prior to the command's arrival. Interesting stuff.
If you start a Custer ping list, would you put me on it?
I’m afraid that camera and film limitations of the time prevented us from seeing the real beauty of the women of the day. I’ve always been a believer that when someone wrote of a woman being a real ‘beauty’, you could count on it!
Oh, boy. I'm not sure I have time to do a Custer ping (or any other kind of ping, for that matter. Otherwise I'd be happy to include you. I was hoping drzz would take the bate :)
While retired, my time has not been my own lately and that doesn't show signs of stopping soon.
If I do ever get my Custer website back up though, I'll be sure to let ya'll know. I still have it on my hard disk. But it needs to be completed and without a place to put it I've let it set.
Of all of the battlefields I have visited in the US, Little Big Horn had the most impact on me, largely because it remains unchanged and unhemmed in by development. It remains on Crow land, although it is maintained by the national park service.
By touring the battlefield, it is easy to see how Custer was outflanked, on both the riverside and hillside. When you have fire coming from below and above you, and another group of mixed Indian light calvary coming on your left flank, it must have been readily apparent to every soldier on that battlefield that they were going to die that day.
Remember too, folks, that there is a good reason why Custer finished last in his class, was demoted, and considered pompous (yet brave) by those who served with him.
I happen to have nothing but respect for the bravery of all involved, both group fighting for noble causes: the Americans for pacifying territory that had been won and/or purchased, and the Indians for preserving their land and way of life.
I’d like a look too.
Thanks
Well, I love talking about Custer (who I have admired for years despite the constant rewriting of history) and his wife but I understand your time constraints. Maybe our French friend (what a delightful surprise!) will take it up.
Nice talking to you.
Custer was well-regarded during the Civil War (despite his bad performance at West Point); it was only when he went to the frontier and had badly trained immigrant soldiers to deal with that his reputation suffered.
Any Miles Keogh fans out there?
Let's not get all excited. I developed it years ago when the archaeological evidence was fresh and the Scott/Fox books had recently come out. Most of it was a compilation of their information along with background taken from Dr. John S. Gray (author of "The Centennial Campaign"). Obviously, it would need to be updated.
Also, I never did complete getting maps for the site. I talked to John Doerner (park historian) about maps and he set me on to a fellow in Texas who was coming out with a book on historical maps at the time. He felt I could use existing maps if I made minor changes to them. I wasn't comfortable with that (for obvious copyright reasons), so never finished that portion.
It would be aways off, folks.
Maybe Custer wasn’t scalped because he was balding and had a crew cut? There is no evidence he wore long hair during the battle.
Custer had a history of taking risks and in the past he came out on top - at Little Big Horn his chances ran out.
As for the accounts of “Indians” at that time, they were pretty much demoralized and destitute. They also knew Custer had been turned into a cult hero by the whites. They would probably have said whatever they thought the whites wanted to hear which would have presented them in a good light.
Custer didn’t even use scouts or reconnaissance to determine what he was attacking. He had no idea the size of the force he was facing aside from numerous warning from his Indian scouts that the number of hostiles were very great.
I know there are a lot of people who are Custer admirers.
I am not one of them. A Julius Caesar, Alexander the Great, or Hannibal he definitely was not. Unfortunately a lot of brave men paid the price for his carelessness and rashness.
Yup.
Given Custer's personality'.... it's impossible for me to believe that he would have stayed behind on Luce. Besides Humphreys Miller, Mari Sandoz also states it in her book on the subject.
After walking the entire battlefield, I don't believe there even was any formal reunion of Custer's two battalions... Keogh basically drove his two companies onto Calhoun Hill because it seemed like the ground was growing Indians. Calhoun set up his skirmishers first... and as he was overwhelmed, Keogh's men were caught while giving their horses to the fours. Custer, Headquarters and Company C would have had to have been with the forward battalion.
Another factor for a hasty, Custer demise was the supposed lack of mutilation to his body. If any wasichu escaped mutilation at the Little Bighorn... it's surely one that had been dead for a while.
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