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Just goes to show that Europeans (Western and Central Europeans,at least) don’t have the foggiest idea of how important it is to destroy mainstream islam (aka:”radical”islam) or of going about defeating a movement whose mindset is firmly planted in the 9th Century.

You can't be serious. You're criticizing the Brits of something that the U.S. has absolutely no intention of doing either.

Listen, all of you, this is not a problem with the Brits. I will say it again--this is not a problem with the Brits. This is a problem with the useless population of Iraq. Basra has been a fairly safe place for quite a while, then, what a shock, as soon as the Brits leave they turn on each other. Does anyone believe anything different will occur in the rest of Iraq as soon as we start drawing down?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again--we can't want it more for them than they want it for themselves. They are not worthy of what we (we in the military, that is) are fighting and dying to give them. You all need to do a tour over here to see it for yourselves. Then you'd understand.

I have no doubt that people in this country would also turn to militia’s if the central Gov’t were unable to or unwilling to provide protection and security. I also have no doubt that there would be rival militias fighting for control. We were once told in this country that the slaves weren’t ready to be free and they couldn’t take care of themselves. In the aftermath of the war between our states, as the Union Army withdrew and Reconstruction waned many independent militia’s formed, Republican politicians were murdered and quite often court houses and other public structures were simply taken over by rival gangs. The terrorist wing of the Democratic party (aka the KKK) burned and pillaged their way throughout a number of Southern cities. Appomattox may have ended the war (Mission Accomplished) but it took many, many years to stabilize things in the South and to put down numerous insurrections on the local level.

Talk to freeper David Osborne. He’s there now.

"Does anyone believe anything different will occur in the rest of Iraq as soon as we start drawing down?"

IMHO - Possibly, especially if Petraeus uses the political and military levers available to him, and I think he is doing so and will continue to do so. Petraeus is different from previous Commanders in Iraq. He is smarter. He's got the military thing down pat and is more political, more Machiavellian. My only question is whether the Sunni are smart enough to grasp his overall strategy and benefit from it; allowing the U.S. to benefit as well. It appears, admittedly from here, that the Sunni are finally starting to "get it", and the more they "get it", the more they see the benefit to them.

What do I mean by "get it"? I mean, 1) Sunni cooperation with Petraeus eliminates AQ violence and local and national political interference from AQ(the Sunni appear to prefer a more secular life). 2) Sunni cooperation with Petraeus is building Sunni military numbers and the organizational foundation which is so essential to application of power. It may also keep the Sunni from fighting each other, while the Shia do so. 3) Sunni cooperation with Petraeus in defeating AQ will lead to Sunni occupation of the moral high ground in US eyes, and will benefit US relations with neighboring Sunni nations, to the detriment of Iran. 4) Sunni cooperation with Petraus SHOULD put pressure (a "stop loss" situation) on Iraqi Shite leadership to come to some political agreement before they lose even more leverage.

I could expand on this, but I'm only an armchair general and so I naturally want to avoid getting too specific :-)

I'll leave it at that. Let me also say, Thank You! for your service. Also, having been in a similar position in another war, I agree that your view is different; that why I stated "IMHO" (emphasis on the H)

Listen, all of you, this is not a problem with the Brits. I will say it again--this is not a problem with the Brits. This is a problem with the useless population of Iraq. Basra has been a fairly safe place for quite a while, then, what a shock, as soon as the Brits leave they turn on each other. Does anyone believe anything different will occur in the rest of Iraq as soon as we start drawing down? I've said it before, and I'll say it again--we can't want it more for them than they want it for themselves. They are not worthy of what we (we in the military, that is) are fighting and dying to give them. You all need to do a tour over here to see it for yourselves. Then you'd understand.

Couldn't agree more and I don't need a tour (there) to know it. Thanks for your Service none-the-less. Blackbird.

"I've said it before, and I'll say it again--we can't want it more for them than they want it for themselves. They are not worthy of what we (we in the military, that is) are fighting and dying to give them."

Absolutely. If they are set on killing each other over their differences, as they have for centuries, we are not going to change that in a few years. They have to want the life and liberty we are trying to let them have.

"They are not worthy of what we (we in the military, that is) are fighting and dying to give them. "

I really hope you do not believe you are "fighting and dying" for Iraq. If you do, I can certainly understand your frustration; but that is not the case. Please read the below speech by the President. It should have been read to all of our military.[Bold is mine.]

President Bush Thanks Military On Independence Day At Fort Bragg, North Carolina 7-4-06

By achieving victory in Iraq, we will help Iraqis build a free nation in the heart of a troubled region, and inspire those who desire liberty -- those democratic reformers from Damascus to Tehran. By achieving victory in Iraq, we will honor the sacrifice of the brave men and women who have risked their lives and given their lives for a just and noble cause.

Victory in Iraq will not, in itself, end the war on terror. We're engaged in a global struggle against the followers of a murderous ideology that despises freedom and crushes all dissent, and has territorial ambitions and pursues totalitarian aims. This enemy attacked us in our homeland on September the 11th, 2001. They're pursuing weapons of mass destruction that would allow them to deliver even more catastrophic destruction to our country and our friends and allies across the world. They're dangerous. And against such enemy there is only one effective response: We will never back down, we will never give in and we will never accept anything less than complete victory. (Applause.)

We will keep the pressure on them. We will stay on the offense. We'll fight the terrorists in Afghanistan and Iraq and every battlefront in this struggle. Yet, in the long run, we will defeat the terrorists and their hateful ideology by spreading the hope of freedom across the world. Our strategy to protect America is based on a clear premise: The security of our nation depends on the advance of liberty in other nations.

On September the 11th, 2001, we saw that problems originating in a failed and oppressive state 7,000 miles away could bring murder and destruction to our country. And we learned an important lesson: Decades of excusing and accommodating the lack of freedom in the Middle East did nothing to make it safe. So long as the Middle East remains a place where freedom does not flourish, it will remain a place where terrorists foment resentment and threaten American security.

And so we pursue a forward strategy of freedom in the Middle East. We ought to be confident in the pursuit of that strategy, because liberty is universal. And by standing with those who desire liberty, we will help extend freedom to millions who have not known it, and lay the foundations of peace for generations to come.

“I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again—we can’t want it more for them than they want it for themselves. They are not worthy of what we (we in the military, that is) are fighting and dying to give them. You all need to do a tour over here to see it for yourselves. Then you’d understand.”

Anyone who has read the history of Islam and that region of the world knows the same thing. Keep your head down and keep telling it like it is!