Posted on 10/06/2007 6:06:27 PM PDT by jdm
The Washington Post has an article which reminds us that history continues to reveal itself even after we think the story has been told in its entirety, especially in small but intriguing ways. The veterans of PO Box 1142, a highly secret operation which interrogated high-value Nazi detainees, have just begun to speak about their experiences after honoring their commitment to silence for six decades (via Memeorandum):
The veterans of P.O. Box 1142, a top-secret installation in Fairfax County that went only by its postal code name, were brought back to Fort Hunt by park rangers who are piecing together a portrait of what happened there during the war.
Nearly 4,000 prisoners of war, most of them German scientists and submariners, were brought in for questioning for days, even weeks, before their presence was reported to the Red Cross, a process that did not comply with the Geneva Conventions. Many of the interrogators were refugees from the Third Reich.
"We did it with a certain amount of respect and justice," said John Gunther Dean, 81, who became a career Foreign Service officer and ambassador to Denmark.
The interrogators had standards that remain a source of pride and honor.
"During the many interrogations, I never laid hands on anyone," said George Frenkel, 87, of Kensington. "We extracted information in a battle of the wits. I'm proud to say I never compromised my humanity."
It's a shame that these men had to wait so long to get their recognition. They appear to have broken many of the secrets of the Nazi war machine -- not so much in terms of strategy but more in technology. The PO Box 1142 group kept the detainees incommunicado for weeks at a time, a violation of the Geneva Convention but deemed necessary for the war effort.
Many of them -- indeed, most of them -- oppose the Iraq war and especially the interrogation techniques applied by the Bush administration. They rightly remain proud of their record of using softer techniques to get the information they needed to stop the Germans. A few of them took the opportunity to make that clear during the ceremonies in New Jersey that honored their service.
It must be said, however, that they faced a different enemy in a different war. The Germans fought to expand territory through traditional warfare, at least as arrayed against the US and the West. While they conducted sabotage missions in the US through espionage, they did not use terrorist infiltrators to attempt to kill thousands of American civilians. They also did not face religious extremists who believed that death brought them to Allah and 72 waiting virgins for taking out women and children. One can make a case that the civilized techniques of PO Box 1142 worked because their detainees also believed themselves civilized and members of the Western culture.
That's not an argument for torture as traditionally understood. Is waterboarding torture? We use it to train our Navy SEALs and other commando units. Do psychological interrogation techniques amount to torture? Congress has set limits on these techniques which the administration and the military are bound by law to follow -- and as I noted yesterday, which the attorneys should review thoroughly to determine the exact boundaries where these techniques cross the line. The existence of those memos do not mean that the administration has broken the law.
One thing is for certain. If today's New York Times had been reporting during the time of PO Box 1142, it would not have stayed a secret for six decades. It would have been on its front pages in six months.
thought this might interest you.
“It must be said, however, that they faced a different enemy in a different war. The Germans fought to expand territory through traditional warfare,...”
“They also did not face religious extremists who believed that death brought them to Allah and 72 waiting virgins for taking out women and children. One can make a case that the civilized techniques of PO Box 1142 worked because their detainees also believed themselves civilized and members of the Western culture.”
Says enough right there. One would think the guys of PO Box 1142 would be aware of the difference, and stand down on opinion of that of which isn’t of their particular experience.
I don't believe this story. It's enemy propaganda.
I'm with you...
I am fiurious we are using waterboarding etc. I spent hours upon hours teaching Geneva and Hague conventions to basic trainees and never thought aI would ever see the day......I believed in it, man, the philosophy of it, the fact the the US follows it even if our foe doesn’t...now I just say WTF.........the rationale for torture is insupportable, does us no good, gets us unreliable information, puts our people in constant danger and loses us stature in the eyes of the world as well as the high moral ground. I am outraged and I support the war one thousand percent.
2. Waterboarding is NOT torture. It is total BS to imply that it is. Nor would playing loud rock music, tearing up Korans, smearing pig oil, etc.
“they faced a different enemy in a different war.”
No one on the left and those who oppose Bush seem to understand this simple reality. As if playing chess would have gotten Kalid Shiek Mohammed to reveal his secrets.
jdm, I don’t know who you are, but I am a close relative of one of the WWII interrogators and I was present for all of the reunion events and I know all of those veterans.
WHAT is your SOURCE when you say “most of them oppose the Iraq war”??? I know that two of them vocally oppose it, but please distinguish between their pride in having effectively and humanely extracted valuable information which saved thousands of lives and “opposing the Iraq war.”
These gentlemen know, FIRSTHAND, the effect of a brutal dictator commandeering their own country. Most lost family members to Hitler.
Do not put words in their mouths. If you are a closer source than me... that is to say, you have personally discussed the Iraq war with each and every one, then, please: correct me.
Ft Hunt did exist & did provide a valuable service during WWII. A grandson of the post commander make the following remarks at the end of the reunion.
Ladies& Gentleman, Distinguished Guests, Veterans of PO Box 1142, my name is CAPT Rob Walker, USAF, I am the grandson of COL John L. Walker, on behalf of the Walker Family, I would like to make a few comments. Present today is Col Walker’s youngest son, James Walker, USA retired. Unable to attend this reunion are his two other children John L. Walker Jr., a USA veteran and Mattie Mae Reeves, who many of you may remember as a little girl riding around PO Box 1142 on horseback with her father in control of the reins. COL Walker died in 1958 long before I came along.
To Ambassador Dean, COL Kleinman, Dr Lachmann and Mr. Pins, Thank you for your kind words about my grandfather. Thank you for letting me learn more about a man I did not have an opportunity to meet. As I have learned of the positive way my grandfather influenced your lives, know that your story, your mission, your accomplishments have and will continue to have a positive influence on me and countless others. To the Department of Interior, the National Park Service, the US Army, the US Navy and other agencies responsible, Thank you for all the hard work uncovering this important part of military and US history. To the Veterans of PO Box 1142 know that today the USAF, thru its Professional Military Education, still teaches the strategic importance of the mission to bomb the Ball Bearing Factory in Schweinfurt. It is humbling to be in the presence of individuals that made that and many other critical missions possible. You are the heroes that insured our victory. You are the individuals that insured a more rapid end to the war and without doubt you all saved thousands of lives with the results of your TOP SECRET mission. My grandfather is interred here at Arlington. Later today I will visit his resting place with my father knowing a little bit more about his time in service. I know my Grandfather is smiling above, I know if he was here today, he would shake your hand and with a smile say well done. Veterans of PO Box 1142 we honor your service, you embody the essence of the core values of the US military and the highest of morals that are the foundation of American society. Thank you for setting the standard. In closing, we cherish your presence here today. God Bless these American Heroes.
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