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To: WesternCulture
"The main reason Denmark, Poland and Russia formed an alliance and declared war on Sweden in 1700 was that they, quite erroneously, believed that Sweden under the young regent of Charles the XII was an easy prey."


Time for some historical lesson. It was Sweden that joined Polish-Moscovian war for Livonia. Polish - Swedish wars took place since 1563 until 1721 not just 1700 - 1721. In 1563 Sweden joined Moscovian side but both countries were to weak to win the war. When Jan III Waza (Johan III) became King of Sweden in 1568, he married Polish Queen, Katarzyna Jagiellonka and Sweden turned sides, becoming ally of Poland. When Swedish troops marched into Livonia in 1600, Swede's betrayed it's Polish ally and took almost whole Livonia. Polish response was quick, in 1602-1603 Polish forces regained Livonia except for 3 cities: Parnu and two others I can't recall right now (sigh). The battles went on and although Poles had advantage and won in big battles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kircholm
check the "strenght" and "casualties"

they couldn't give a final blow to the Swede's. In 1611 a treaty was signed (status quo), Swede's have broken it several times (1617, 1620, 1621) but Polish forces were engaged in battles against Moscovia and couldn't fight back.
Another battles took place between 1625-1629 with two treaties In Altmark (1629) and Sztumska Wies (1635).
1650 - 1655 were the years of Swedish Deluge of Poland... explained swiftly here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Deluge_(Polish_history) And then in 1655 - 1661 second Second Nothern War took place.
You shouldn't forget that Polish-Dutch-Russian alliance was a way of getting back Livonia which should belong to Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. You seem to forget also that it was Charles XII who attacked Poland in 1702 when Poland was 100% neutral. Poland officialy joined Dutch-Russian alliance after Swedish invasion.
5 posted on 12/02/2007 3:55:57 AM PST by Verdelet (Defensor Patriae!)
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To: Verdelet

Your remarks are relevant, but I maintain that in 1700 Poland’s basic idea was to join an alliance that, from a theoretical point of view, stood good chances of crushing Sweden once and for all.

I’m aware Sweden continued to attack Poland after Poland officially declared herself ‘neutral’. However, it is understandable that Sweden didn’t care much about this fact as our main strategy was to go for the Russian Tsar’s throat. I guess my forebears didn’t fancy the idea of having a strong Poland able of stabbing us in the back (I’m not saying it would’ve happened).

The relation between Poland and Sweden has always been a complicated one, to say the least. The era of the Great Nordic War is no exception.

Today, there is no reason to quarrel. Yet, we should continue to argue and exchange views. Doing so will aid the idea of a new, free, prosperous, Capitalist Europe.

Today we Westerners are under attack, but provided all of the Western nations learn how to work together, the future belongs to us!

Best of regards from a neighbor country,

WesternCulture

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Nordic_War


6 posted on 12/02/2007 9:19:45 AM PST by WesternCulture
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To: Verdelet
it was Charles XII who attacked Poland in 1702 when Poland was 100% neutral.

It's a rather complicated issue. The Polish King August II was also the Kurfurst of Saxony, which was at war with Sweden. He attacked first with Saxon army from RP's territory.

While RP was officially neutral the difference could be considered as too subtle.

9 posted on 12/02/2007 12:13:59 PM PST by Freelance Warrior (The barbarian)
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