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Gandhi: Talk to the Snakes(Let the NAZIS kill you)
http://www.israelnationalnews.com ^ | 01/17/08 | Rabbi Avi Shafran

Posted on 01/18/2008 8:45:26 AM PST by Para-Ord.45

In a 1938 essay, Mohandas ("Mahatma") Gandhi, the spiritual and political leader of the Indian independence movement, counseled Jews in Nazi Germany to neither flee nor resist, but rather offer themselves up to be killed by their enemies, since their "suffering voluntarily undergone will bring them an inner strength and joy."

When all hope is lost, a Jew about to be killed al Kiddush HaShem - as a Jewish martyr - is indeed to reach for serenity, even happiness, at the opportunity to give up his life because of who he is. When Rabbi Elchonon Wasserman, the great Lithuanian Jewish religious leader and scholar, was murdered by Hitler's henchmen in 1941, he reportedly told the students about to be killed with him:

"In Heaven it appears that they deem us to be righteous because our bodies have been chosen to atone for the Jewish people.... In this way, we will save the lives of our brethren overseas.... We are now fulfilling the greatest commandment.... The very fire that consumes our bodies will one day rebuild the Jewish people."

But Jewish martyrdom is not something to be courted. And so, Mr. Gandhi's advice for Jews during the Holocaust was, even if consonant with his personal beliefs, from Judaism's point of view, profoundly wrong.

And Gandhi's advice was even more disturbing in light of his admission, in that same essay, that the "cry for the national home for the Jews does not make much appeal to me." Jews, he said, should "make... their home where they are born." It is, moreover, he went on, "inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs."

Apples, they say, don't fall far from trees. A rotten one fell with a loud splat recently over at the Washington Post. On a weblog - "On Faith" - sponsored by that paper in conjunction with Newsweek magazine, Arun Gandhi, a grandson of Mohandas and co-founder of the M. K. Gandhi Institute for Nonviolence at the University of Rochester, opined that "the Jews today" are intent on making Germans feel guilty for the Holocaust (which he chose to spell with a lower-case "h") and that they insist that "the whole world must regret what happened to the Jews."

"The world did feel sorry," he reminded his readers, "for the episode." But "when an individual or a nation refuses to forgive and move on, the regret turns into anger."

Ah, yes, that unpleasant "episode," more than 60 years ago. And those Jews still can't bring themselves to forgive the Nazis.

Like his grandfather was, Mr. Gandhi petit-fils is also concerned with Israel. Addressing those who defend the Jewish State's security barrier and use of weapons to fight terrorism, he challenged: "[Y]ou believe that you can create a snake pit - with many deadly snakes in it - and expect to live in the pit secure and alive?"

And so, the man of peace, grandson of the same, reached the conclusion that actions like Israel's "created a culture of violence, and that Culture of Violence is eventually going to destroy humanity."

Interesting. Although his own concern about Jews was not exactly their militarism, Mr. Hitler similarly saw them as jeopardizing humanity's survival. Well, whatever.

Grandson Gandhi subsequently apologized for his "poorly worded post." In the course of his apology he even took care to capitalize "Holocaust." But his apology itself, unfortunately, consisted solely of his regret at having implied that "the policies of the Israeli government are reflective of the views of all Jewish people." Many Jews, he explained, "are as concerned as I am by the use of violence for state purposes...."

Well, thank you, Mr. Gandhi. But no thanks. I cannot speak for all of the Jewish people, of course, but for my part, I must decline your apology. Not because I bear you any grudge or ill will, and certainly not because I am hard-hearted. I don't think I have ever rejected an apology in my life, until now.

It's not because I am blinded by some ethnic rage over the unpleasantness of that World War II episode. And not because I am a knee-jerk defender of Israel in whatever her leaders decide to do; I am not.

No, I reject your apology simply because you seem to have missed the entire point of why your original post was so offensive - frankly, revolting. It is astounding that you still don't seem to realize your insult and error. They lie in where you directed your words.

You are welcome to criticize Israeli decisions, even the wisdom of Israel's establishment itself, if you agree with your grandfather's views. But if your ultimate concerns are, in fact, peace and humanity's survival, then in a world where Jews are regularly attacked simply for being Jews, and Israelis simply for being Israelis, where Jewish tombstones are defaced and broken, where Arab countries will not permit Israelis to enter their borders, and Arab textbooks teach children to hate Jews as a matter of religious and cultural obligation, where a United Nations routinely ignores murder, mayhem and unspeakable cruelty in scores of countries, but just as routinely condemns Israel for defending herself, the primary focus of your ire should have been not those living in the snake pit; but rather, the snakes themselves.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: gandhi; ghandi
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1 posted on 01/18/2008 8:45:31 AM PST by Para-Ord.45
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To: Para-Ord.45

That plan would have worked fine if the Brits had been the ones running Germany, However . . .


2 posted on 01/18/2008 8:48:53 AM PST by Tribune7 (Dems want to rob from the poor to give to the rich)
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To: Para-Ord.45
Interesting ... disguised his hatred of Jews through trying to make them “martyrs”. That’s sure one way to eliminate them and encourage other Jews to allow themselves to be murdered ... this is a misuse of “martyrdom”.
3 posted on 01/18/2008 8:48:56 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) .)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: 1st-P-In-The-Pod; 2ndDivisionVet; A_Conservative_in_Cambridge; af_vet_rr; agrace; Aiko; ...
FReepMail to be added or removed from this pro-Israel/Judaic/Russian Jewry ping list.

Warning! This is a high-volume ping list.

5 posted on 01/18/2008 8:52:30 AM PST by Alouette (Vicious Babushka)
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To: nmh

Not really surprising. A while back on the History Channel they were talking about the fact that he wanted to destroy all the ancient temples and palaces in India because they were a reminder of the caste system he hated.


6 posted on 01/18/2008 8:52:55 AM PST by cripplecreek (Only one consistent conservative in this race and his name is Hunter.)
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To: Para-Ord.45

It is just like those peace activists here in america. They will protest their cause against the very nation that secures their rights to free speech because they are safe to do so. But protest in a country run by blood thirsty, children murdering islamist? Hell no they may kill us for doing that!

The anti-Semites know that the israelis will not kill them for their views, their self righteousness is astounding.


7 posted on 01/18/2008 8:54:35 AM PST by Walkingfeather (u)
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To: cripplecreek

Obviously though .. he hated Jews more.


8 posted on 01/18/2008 8:55:03 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) .)
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To: nmh

He certainly sounds like someone who would fit in with the limo liberal crowd today.


9 posted on 01/18/2008 8:56:28 AM PST by cripplecreek (Only one consistent conservative in this race and his name is Hunter.)
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To: Para-Ord.45
Ever since I knew anything about him, I’ve hated Gandhi.

One of my favorite short stories has the Nazis conquering India and getting ready for war with Japan. Gandhi organizes a strike against the Nazis... The Nazis execute every tenth man and his family - the rest go back to work, quickly! The story ends with Gandhi being taken out back for a “noodle” - a bullet in the back of the head.
A happy ending in an otherwise appalling world.

10 posted on 01/18/2008 9:00:01 AM PST by Little Ray (Rudy Guiliani: If his wives can't trust him, why should we?)
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To: Para-Ord.45

Gandhi would have been squashed like a bug if he was facing Nazi Germany and not a relatively benign British Empire.

Like a bug I tell you.


11 posted on 01/18/2008 9:00:03 AM PST by rom
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To: Para-Ord.45
The head of Ishmael is a snake that aims to strike down every Jew, without exception. If Israel was not strong enough to defend itself, there is no doubt the Arabs would complete Hitler's work. Iran sees a world rid of Israel. Arun Ghandi misses the point: for Jews the past is very much alive. Israel has to fight back, not because she wants bloodshed or war but because her enemies deny the right of Jews to live. It is either to remember the lessons of the Shoah or to recur it all over again. Jews have taken an oath the past will never be repeated. Am Israeli Chai.
12 posted on 01/18/2008 9:00:19 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Para-Ord.45

Didn’t the editor of this article look at it and say, “If this is true, why all the requests for apologies and repirations from slavery?”

I’ve seen some nonsense in my life, but this article ranks up there in the top 10.


13 posted on 01/18/2008 9:00:43 AM PST by redpoll
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To: Para-Ord.45

I think the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto had a better response.


14 posted on 01/18/2008 9:01:32 AM PST by JOAT
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To: Tribune7

This is very like the pacifists in our various Western countries.

They can only BE pacifist because of the strong military that protects them.


15 posted on 01/18/2008 9:02:08 AM PST by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: MrB
They can only BE pacifist because of the strong military that protects them.

And laws enforced by people with guns, clubs and ropes (or needles).

16 posted on 01/18/2008 9:04:05 AM PST by Tribune7 (Dems want to rob from the poor to give to the rich)
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To: Para-Ord.45

Jesus never waged war against a government opposed to him and allowed himself to be martyred. All the apostles but St. John, the son of Zebedee, were martyred, I believe. “Do not resist an evildoer. But if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also; and if anyone wants to sue you and take your coat, give your cloak as well; and if anyone forces you to go one mile, go also the second mile. Give to everyone who begs from you, and do not refuse anyone who wants to borrow from you.”

Jesus wasn’t in line with regular Jews. It’s understandable that Jews viewed Ghandi differently than Jesus would have.


17 posted on 01/18/2008 9:04:18 AM PST by GraniteStateConservative (...He had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here...-- Worst.President.Ever.)
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To: Little Ray

I read the same story. I believe the point was that non-voilence will only work if the government in charge is basically moral. Obviously, Nazi’s were not.


18 posted on 01/18/2008 9:05:38 AM PST by jim_trent
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To: jim_trent

I am pretty sure that was the point.

The other point I got from it was that Gandhi was an idiot.


19 posted on 01/18/2008 9:07:47 AM PST by Little Ray (Rudy Guiliani: If his wives can't trust him, why should we?)
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To: Little Ray

I agree with your second point, but isn’t that obvious (or redundant) with a “conscientious objector”?


20 posted on 01/18/2008 9:21:58 AM PST by jim_trent
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