Posted on 03/24/2008 3:43:32 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man
actually, i refer to it as “mugged by a tree”
i did a post on it here back in late december
i can’t remember the title
all in all, i am blessed
The continuing assertion that a wet start was responsible.
Do you even know what a wet start is? Have you ever seen one? Have you ever performed one?
It was extensively investigated, and the assertion that there was a wet start that set it off and "covered up by some cabal" is stupid. Stupid.
There are plenty of reasons to dislike McCain as a candidate, but this is foolish, childish, and frankly, paints people on Free Republic who present this "conspiracy" as stupid, bigoted hicks who are ready to accept any conspiracy theory they read on the Internet as being completely plausible because it is on the Internet.
Just saying, because you asked.
That’s a quote from the site referenced as ‘one of the sites that has the theory on it’ - not my opinion.
I was reporting what was relayed to me by members of the crew who lived through the fire. Are their opinions invalid just because the were NCO's? I think not. Oh and I am not going to call them stupid either. One of them was a long term employee and friend.
People will do what they will do - not under my control. SAM asked a question. I responded with the information I have. I also suggest that he and everyone who has a question review the video images for themselves and make up their own mind. Now going to tell me next McCain was not a hotdog? Don't you find it interesting that his Navy career was very limited? He is "credited" with turning around a failing Corsair Squadron but he would never make Admiral - you do not find that interesting?
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/carriers/histories/cv59-forrestal/forrestal-fire.html
I have read every word. Have you?
“I’m gonna go out on a ‘limb’ here, but I’m guessing that a pair of skis were involved.......”
i would have loved it, had it been so - at least the time-frame-source of the event would have had some great motivation behind it
but, unfortunately, no great and glorious leisure event was involved
just a stop by the curb to get something from my trunk - to resupply the windshield wiper fluid - and a very old and time-and-weather weakened big tree
and me at wrong place wrong time
mathematical chances? more unlikely than winning the lottery
so was the intervention of a man, an orthodox jewish rabbi,who, while i was still unconscious, went and held me steady where i was, refusing to let anyone try to help him move me until emt workers could get there and put a neck collar on me and a backboard under me - by the spinal images i’ve seen, he is likely why i am walking today
mathematical chances for his presence, with his prior training and clear presence of mind to the situation, following the mathematically unlikely event - more unlikely than winning the lottery twice in a row
sorry
your italic tag was dropped after the first paragraph of the intended quote
making that second paragraph look like an additional comment from you
Very few people make Admiral, obviously. I know a zillion brillant and competent 0-5s and 0-6s who already know for certain or are aware they are not going to make Admiral.
How many were sons and grandsons of Admirals?
It happens; should have done a preview. :)
Yes. I have been witness to wet starts, and performed a few myself. Never had one turn into a hot start though.
As I said in a previous posting, I spent four years working on the flight deck of five different aircraft carriers. I was turn qualified and a flight deck troubleshooter, so I know all about this. I studied the accident, watched films on it and recently, read what is generally acclaimed as the definitive book on it, “Sailors to the End: The Deadly Fire on the USS Forrestal and the Heroes Who Fought It” by Gregory A. Freeman.
I am not interested in why McCain didn’t make Admiral. I don’t see how the issue is germane to the ridiculous assertion about the causes of the Forrestal fire. I served under him for several months in 1976. The squadron in question was VA-174, a large training squadron, and it was not “failing”, it just was pretty ordinary. I know, I was there at the time.
I do not recall McCain as being any kind of exceptional leader, but I did respect the hell out of him, being a Navy brat and being well versed in who was who in the POW camps back in the sixties and early seventies. I knew who he was, even if some of my squadmates were a little fuzzier on his history.
To be honest, he seemed so dull and lackluster to me, that I assumed his command was a way of the USN saying thank you for his sacrifice in the POW camps.
As to whether or not he was a “hotdog”, I did not know him as a young pilot, so I can only go on what was in his book and what some others said about him. My assessment of him (strictly from the perspective as a non-pilot myself) is that he was probably not a great pilot, not exceptionally skilled, and could have been prone to making mental mistakes. I have seen many Navy pilots up close and personal for a few years, and I think I have a decent eye for categorizing them.
I watched them through all phases of their careers, from fresh LTJG’s to Captains, through all phases of their flights (except actually in flight) and like most others who did what I did, I knew who the good pilots were, who the mediocre ones were, who the bad ones were, and who were likely the dangerous ones.
I watched them preflight, prepare, taxi, take-off and land. When you see thousands of cats and traps over many months, you can tell who has natural talent, who has to work hard to be competent, and who is just lazy and sloppy.
When they landed, I read their maintenance reports, knew which ones were crap and which ones weren’t. Bottom line, I did develop an eye and an affinity for good pilots. From what I have read about McCain, he seems to fit a type lower on the scale. But that is an OPINION. I only saw him fly a few times, and I was fresh out of jet school at the time.
What I CAN say is that there is NOTHING McCain did on the flight deck of the Forrestal that day that contributed to the loss of his plane and the lives of people around him, conspiracy theories to his toggling of switches and wet starting of engines being attributed to “Forrestal Survivors”. Nothing against the guy, and I am sure he is a decent fellow, but was he towards the aft portion of the flight deck watching what happened when it happened? Or was he a jet mechanic in the hangar bay when it happened? Or even a fresh E2 Airman Apprentice working in the Galley for several months when it happened? Or did he hear that “wet start” in the rumor mill on the ship or in a reunion? Point is, the people I believe are those that saw it with their own eyes, and those who investigated it.
Nothing personal here, and your tagline betrays a clear bias against the guy. There are plenty of reasons to dislike him, but the insinuation and continual introduction of this ridiculous “wet start” theory is demeaning and doesn’t do the anti-McCain cause credit.
Oh and anybody else reading this exchange. Please go and read all you can find from FACTUAL sources and make up your own mind. That is all I ask.
You and I don’t necessarily disagree about the fitness of McCain to be President. We agree on more than we disagree with regarding McCain himself.
But I judge him on what I can conclude myself using proven information, not conjecture. Sure, I think calling him “Ace” McCain is hilarious.
But there isn’t any need to slander him. His qualities are easily judged on their merits.
mad_as_he$$ yourself, huh? And you worry about McCain's temper?
Well, maybe you should keep your fingers off anything more dangerous or complicated than a keyboard!
This is one definition of slander: Slander is an untruthful oral (spoken) statement about a person that harms the person's reputation or standing in the community.
I understand your distinction that you were relating other opinions from both people and websites, but I think continually presenting as a logical option a falsehood constitutes slander.
Particularly a falsehood that not only has not been positively proven, but by an extensive scientific inquiry into it has been DISPROVEN. That is a much more difficult thing to do.
Not saying I am right on this. It is just my opinion which I am trying to defend.
I do respect your right to have yours and if you can defend it with logic it will stand on its merits.
I never asked to be President. Ah so now a distasteful question is slander. Grow up. What your boy can’t take any scrutiny? Mild compared to what is going to happen around here in the next 8 months.
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