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USAF Ordered to Step Up and Man Up
Strategy Page ^ | 3-23-08 | Jim Dunnigan

Posted on 03/25/2008 4:36:31 AM PDT by Renfield

March 23, 2008: A year ago, the U.S. Army was only getting about a third of its requests for Predator missions filled. The surge campaign was under way, and the new Secretary of Defense got involved with the growing number of complaints from army officers about the Predator shortage. The air force had about a hundred Predators, but only a dozen were in Iraq. Questions were asked.

The air force said it did not have enough Predators, and that there was also a shortage of Predator operators. A typical Predator crew consists of an pilot and a sensor operator. Because the Predator stays in the air for so long, more than one crew is often used for each sortie. Crew shortages sometimes result in Predators coming down before their fuel is used up. The air force insists that existing pilots (of manned aircraft) be trained as Predator operators. The army uses NCOs trained specifically for UAV operation. The army has no operator shortage.

Ever since World War II, there's been a controversy over whether all pilots (most of whom are highly trained warriors, not leaders, which is what officers are supposed to be) must be officers. At the start of World War II, the army air force (there was no separate air force yet) had enlisted pilots, as did the navy. These men were NCOs ("flying sergeants") selected for their flying potential and trained to be pilots. Not leaders of pilots, but professional pilots of fighters, bombers and whatnot. Officers trained as pilots would also fly, but in addition they would provide the leadership for the sergeant pilots in the air and on the ground. As the Army Air Corps changed into the mighty Army Air Force (with 2.4 million personnel, and 80,000 aircraft, at its peak), its capable and persuasive commander (General Hap Arnold), insisted that all pilots be officers. Actually, he wanted them all to be college graduates as well, until it was pointed out that the pool of college graduates was too small to provide the 200,000 pilots the Army Air Force eventually trained. But Arnold forced the issue on only officers being pilots, and the navy had to go along to remain competitive in recruiting.

Because of Iraq and Afghanistan, the army has also increased UAV operator training, and actually has far more UAVs than the air force. But most of the army UAVs are micro (under ten pounds) models, used by combat units (companies and battalion size units). These UAVs are designed to be very simple to use, requiring little formal training. Brigades and divisions use larger, but smaller than Predator, models. Most army UAV operators are not, like air force ones, pilots.

The Secretary of Defense ordered the air force to get more Predators to Iraq, and there are about two dozen there now. To deal with the UAV operator shortage, the air force has been recalling Predator pilots who have returned to their regular flying jobs. Until recently, being a Predator operator was a temporary (three year) assignment. Now, the air force is making it a career option, but it will take several years before they have enough career UAV pilots. The army complains that the air force is not operating like there's a war on, while the army is. While the air force complains that their UAV operators are working twelve hour shifts, six days a week, the army points out that the Predator operators are stationed in the U.S. (and control the UAVs via a satellite link). Air force personnel in Iraq (ground crews for the Predators) serve six month tours. Meanwhile, soldiers serve 15 month tours in Iraq, work 12 hour shifts, and get shot at a lot.

The army is buying a smaller version of the Predator (the Warrior) [PHOTO] and will be using NCOs and warrant officers as operators. The army is taking advantage of the fact that a UAV operator can become proficient practicing with the kind of flight simulator software you can buy in a game store. The air force does not agree with this approach, and fears unfavorable comparisons to their more complex and expensive approach to obtaining UAV operators. A lot of the bad blood between the army and air force comes down to how each service understands wars, and how they are fought. The air force has always been into new technologies, and new ways of fighting wars. The army is more about getting down and dirty and just getting the job done. The Secretary of Defense is siding with the army, and is telling the air force to get off their butts and get more Predators into the air, or else.


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: army; mq1b; mq9; predator; predators; reaper; usaf; wot
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1 posted on 03/25/2008 4:36:32 AM PDT by Renfield
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To: Renfield

This thread will probably devolve into a lot of anti-Air Force and anti-officer comments.


2 posted on 03/25/2008 4:43:06 AM PDT by SIDENET (Hubba Hubba...)
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To: Renfield

Just FYI. The Predator crew operate from the States. However, the maintainers work from deployed locations halfway across the world.

Supply procurement difficulties and duty day work hour limits for maintenance crews plays heavily into this.


3 posted on 03/25/2008 4:45:13 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
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To: SIDENET

It will.

If history is any indicator.


4 posted on 03/25/2008 4:46:13 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
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To: Renfield
The Secretary of Defense is siding with the army, and is telling the air force to get off their butts and get more Predators into the air, or else.

This kind of program should never have been a mission of the Air Force. Put it in control of the Army and Marines.

5 posted on 03/25/2008 4:48:55 AM PDT by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: Renfield

Sky-Warrior ERMP UAV System
http://www.defense-update.com/products/w/warriorUAV.htm

The Sky Warrior carries multiple payloads and have wing hardpoints for carriage of external stores including expendable sensors and weapons. Up to four Hellfire / Viper-Strike weapons could be carried. Unlike the US Air Force Predator, Army Warriors will be configured to fly autonomously. The system will utilize the 'One Station', the US Army standard STANAG 4586 compatible UAV GCS also used for the control of the RQ-7B Shadow, MQ-5B Hunter and future combat system's Vertical take-off and Landing UAV (FireScout VTUAV). The use of a common ground station offers better utilization of available assets and manpower skills. The same GCS is scheduled to fly with the US Marine Corps Pioneer tactical vehicles in early 2006.

6 posted on 03/25/2008 4:49:45 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Jet Jaguar
duty day work hour limits for maintenance crews

Say again, over? While I am enjoying truly scheduled work hours right now, I've always understood that I was there until there were enough "up" aircraft for the next day's schedule. Be that 12, 15, even 20 hours if required. And that was ashore, and stateside.
7 posted on 03/25/2008 4:50:12 AM PDT by tongue-tied (Hey Taliban! Bite me, you will not win.)
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To: tongue-tied

12 hours on equipment work. You stay later to complete documentation.


8 posted on 03/25/2008 4:52:59 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
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To: Jet Jaguar

hmmm...not in my Navy. You stay until the equipment is fixed, and THEN do the paperwork. Might as well leave your watch in the shop, because there is no ‘time’ on the flightline.


9 posted on 03/25/2008 4:58:19 AM PDT by tongue-tied (Hey Taliban! Bite me, you will not win.)
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To: SIDENET

Based on the air force’s track record, most of those comments will be wholly justified.


10 posted on 03/25/2008 4:58:51 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: A.A. Cunningham
Based on the air force’s track record, most of those comments will be wholly justified.

Well, you threw it out there.

Now back it up.

11 posted on 03/25/2008 5:00:55 AM PDT by SIDENET (Hubba Hubba...)
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To: A.A. Cunningham
Based on the air force’s track record

Pretty broad brush there, BTW.

12 posted on 03/25/2008 5:02:49 AM PDT by SIDENET (Hubba Hubba...)
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To: Jet Jaguar; SIDENET

Any reason that this post shouldn’t devolve into a lot of anti-Air Force and anti-officer comments? Many are of the opinion that Air Force officers sometimes deserve a goodly portion of the verbal abuse that enlisted men and men from the other services seem to heap upon them.

Never around Air Force when I was in the Army, but do remember reading David Hackworth explaining that in First Iraq, the Air Force pilots’ air-conditioned buses, the ones that ran between the airbase and their hotel billets, kept washing dust all over the Marine pilots who were sleeping in their foxholes next to their planes.

Has the devolution begun?


13 posted on 03/25/2008 5:03:57 AM PDT by flowerplough (Obama's pastor's chickens are coming home to roost.)
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To: tongue-tied

Well, I have worked +12 fixing jets

But, the regs (USAF) don’t allow it.

Just saying.


14 posted on 03/25/2008 5:04:38 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
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To: flowerplough

I enjoy my hotel room when I can get it.

I endure my tent and cot when I have to (currently).

I have slept in a bag in a hangar a few times.


15 posted on 03/25/2008 5:09:57 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
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To: flowerplough
Any reason that this post shouldn’t devolve into a lot of anti-Air Force and anti-officer comments?

Perhaps because the US has the best Air Force in the world, with the broadest mission of any air force in the world, and is currently strung out all over the world enforcing national policy?

Never around Air Force when I was in the Army, but do remember reading David Hackworth explaining that in First Iraq, the Air Force pilots’ air-conditioned buses, the ones that ran between the airbase and their hotel billets, kept washing dust all over the Marine pilots who were sleeping in their foxholes next to their planes.

You want your country's AF personnel living in crappy conditions? (BTW: a lot of them currently are) What point does that serve?

16 posted on 03/25/2008 5:10:29 AM PDT by SIDENET (Hubba Hubba...)
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To: SIDENET
Pardon the run on sentences, bad puntuation, etc.

It's early, need coffee, blah blah blah.

17 posted on 03/25/2008 5:14:58 AM PDT by SIDENET (Hubba Hubba...)
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To: Jet Jaguar
Well, we have crew rest for aircrew. Required rest rules, bottle to throttle rules - all of that.

But maintainers have no such relief mechanism. We work until the job is done or we're relieved by the oncoming shift. In my checkered past, there were several days where I've said "Here's what we've got..." to my day check maintainers. Unless it was Friday night - that was when we could put in those 20 hour days. Yikes.

They (DX) work 8 hours, night check (NX) works until they finish or see smiling faces of day checkers. Our motto was "There is Day Check, and Stay Check."

That was before I crossed the stream and became the bad guy directing such tasking.
18 posted on 03/25/2008 5:16:06 AM PDT by tongue-tied (Hey Taliban! Bite me, you will not win.)
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To: SIDENET
Should they live under better conditions than soldiers, Marines, and SEALS?
19 posted on 03/25/2008 5:16:19 AM PDT by Jonah Hex ("How'd you get that scar, mister?" "Nicked myself shaving.")
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To: SIDENET

The Air Force were the ones that named their “Strategic Communications” enemies as the Army and Navy in a recent powerpoint.


20 posted on 03/25/2008 5:16:57 AM PDT by Strategerist
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