Climate history may explain empires' fall

Reuters on Yahoo ^ | 12/4/08 | Reuters

[NormsRevenge]

CHICAGO (Reuters) – An analysis of rings on a stalagmite from a cave near Jerusalem reveals a drier climate in the region at a time in history when the Roman and Byzantine empires were in decline, scientists reported on Thursday.

University of Wisconsin geologists analyzed the chemical composition of individual rings as small as one-hundredth of a millimeter across that formed the stalagmite growing up from the floor of the Soreq Cave near Jerusalem between 200 B.C. and 1100 A.D..

Geologists John Valley and Ian Orland concluded the climate was drier in the eastern Mediterranean between 100 A.D. and 700 A.D., with steep drops in rainfall around 100 A.D. and 400 A.D. -- a period of waning Roman and Byzantine power in the region.

"Whether this is what weakened the Byzantines or not isn't known, but it is an interesting correlation," Valley said in a statement.

[JRandomFreeper]

I thought it was failing to bail out the chariot manufacturers.....

/johnny

[MSU]

I have no doubt that climate plays a role in history, but even a casual reading of the history of the Byzantine empire would uncover many other reasons which almost certainly played a greater role.

[MrEdd]

Well, we know that the burning and salting of the land (particularly the forests of Lebanon) didn’t change the climate - because George Bush hadn’t been born yet...

[sailor4321]

I’m afraid these geologists needed to consult with historians and clearly have not done so...

[CatoRenasci]

No, it was the bail out of the lead water pipe manufacturers with state contracts....

[edzo4]

Geologists John Valley and Ian Orland concluded guessed the climate was drier in the eastern Mediterranean between 100 A.D. and 700 A.D

There fixed it.

[muawiyah]

No doubt an historian would have immediately suggested that one of the causes for the waning Roman and Byzantine power in the region was the growth of Persian power in the region.

The Dark Ages put a stop to all that (535AD+), and then the first guys outta' the gate, the Mecca/Medina Arabs, went out and started whipping butts left and right ~ including Persia, Byzentium, et al.

[ClearCase_guy]

Geologists John Valley and Ian Orland concluded the climate was drier in the eastern Mediterranean between 100 A.D. and 700 A.D., with steep drops in rainfall around 100 A.D. and 400 A.D. -- a period of waning Roman and Byzantine power in the region.

Perhaps I'm nit-picking, but --

The Roman Empire reached its greatest extent in 117 AD, so it is questionable to say that 100 AD represents a period in which Roman power was waning (and although Byzantium existed as a city, it was not a seat of any great Roman power at this time -- the Eastern Empire not yet having been established).

Also while 400 AD was a period in which the Western Empire was waning (Battle of Adrianople in 378 AB was a low point), it should be said that Byzantium and the Eastern Empire fared comparatively well during this period, being rich enough to buy off barbarians and thus escaping the most of the depredations that plagued the West.

I don't doubt the reality of the climate change, but that climate change seems to be associated with political change that did not quite occur.

[bigheadfred]

Climate not only plays a part in history, but the future as well.

ALGORE told me so.

Here’s an algorism for you: “I’m so hot, the planet is MEEELLLTTTINGGG”

[Cicero]

Good grief. The Byzantine Empire fell because they had a serious fight with the Persians and then got attacked by the Turks.

Blame it on Mohammed and his namesake Mehmet, not glowbull warming. The Inconvenient Truth is Islam, which also conquered and destroyed several other ancient civilizations.

[Robwin]

Balderdash. It’s all Bush’s fault.

[Destroyer Sailor]

Your points are all very good. In fact the Eastern Roman Empire was in very good shape compared to the West. The East had a larger population with a common culture and language(Greek)than the West. In fact the West was greatly affected by a general cooling of the Earth.At one time vineyards were present in Roman Britain,until a cooler and wetter climate made grape growing for wine impossible. Climate change coupled with depopulation do to barbarian invasions left the Western Roman Empire ready to fall. The East Roman Empire survived and evolved into the Byzantine Empire. Climate did impact the fall of an empire.

[SJackson]

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