And they still can't get those bloodstains out!
"WE NEED MORE CALGON!"
Posted on 04/19/2009 10:03:12 PM PDT by Big_Monkey
Define exactly what constitutes pain? To some a simple medical injection will cause a loss of consciousness due to extreme fear of the expected pain. I have a friend who has such a fear of death that even to mention dying in his presence will cause him to break out in a sweat. According to your definition, merely suggesting to someone that if they do not talk they will simply be kept in jail for the rest of their lives is torture IF the prisoner is claustrophobic. There are people whose tolerance for pain is virtually ZERO.
Using your definition anyhting can be classified as torture and in fcat it has by the loony left in an attempt to paint US as the barbarians.
Hitting, freezing ,simulated drowning, making them believe they were about to be electrocuted - are all serious enough they are clearly pain to most people and don’t fall in the extreme exceptions.
Are we really ,seriously trying to justify torture when there isn’t a time sensitive ticking bomb emergency?
You, sir, or madam are not thinking this through. The interrogations were NOT designed to get information on planned attacks KNOWN to be scheduled. They are designed to gather info from very highly placed operatives in Al Qaeda. You seem to be saying that because we are not aware of "a ticking time bomb" scenario, one does not exist. This is dangerous thinking at the least.
That aside, you cannot have it both ways which you are attempting to do by saying what you call torture is OK to use SOMETIMES.
Finally, it's strange that a procedure (water boarding) which is routinely used on OUR forces in their training is now considered to be torture when used on others.
No offense meant here but it is the position taken by you that surely has our enemies jumping with joy in the knowledge that even if they are captured they will never have to experience a moment of discomfort and in fact will actually be in a better place then they most probably have in their entire miserable lives.
And PLEASE spare me the argument that we have to remain above them or else we become them. There is NO comparison between the actions of those scum and our people fighting this war which THEY started.
And they still can't get those bloodstains out!
"WE NEED MORE CALGON!"
If at first you don’t succeed...
But his head is still firmly attached to his body.
We were just training him for an average day in Hell.
How the CIA Broke the 9/11 Attacks Mastermind
When Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was strapped down to the water-board, he felt humiliated -- not by the treatment but by the fact that a woman, a red-headed CIA supervisor, was allowed to witness the spectacle, a former intelligence officer told ABC News. The al Qaeda mastermind, known as KSM, stubbornly held out for about two minutes...
"Then he started talking, and he never stopped," this former officer said. KSM was never water-boarded again, and in hours and hours of conversation with his interrogators, often over a cup of tea, he poured out his soul and the murderous deeds he committed.
"He was sitting across the table from his interrogator, and he just blurted out, 'I killed Daniel Pearl. I killed him Hahal (slit his throat in a ritual fashion).' There was no water-boarding, no belly slapping; just two guys sitting across the table having a cup of tea."...
Maybe Obama is forging Bush Memos....
Don't you think it's a little pointless to get upset about inflicting the fear of death on people who aspire to be martyrs?
Thanks for the ping!
I simply don’t believe this story. First, it’s at odds with other stories about the waterboarding of KSM, and it just doesn’t make logical sense.
Waterboarding is the sort of thing that is only going to be really effective once, or maybe for a very few tries. After even several times, certainly after dozens of times, the subject will have clearly figured out that he’s not going to drown and that it’s all for show. It only works when the subject doesn’t know *how* it works. It would be a waste of time to do it so many times.
If anyone took waterboarding 183 times, it’s pretty clearly not torture.
I’d agree with that.
However as a practical matter it’s good argument against waterboarding, and the reason that the Israeli military generally does not use such techniques as they have not been found to be productive. If you have to board somebody 183 times, clearly the technique is not effective.
Now from a punishment perspective, I am 100% on board (pun intended). And that’s the mistake the government is making here. If we had simply said “this is payback for 9/11” then people would be 100% supportive, except for those ACLU types who think terrorists are somehow entitled to a trial.
As a vet, I'm NOT in favor of these techniques being carried out by our military, or on prisoners in military custody. Those interrogations should follow the Army Field Manual to the letter.
As for it's efficacy, I really don't know. I know people that have been water boarded as part of their SOC training, and they tell me it's horrible, even if you know it's not "real".
I'm curious that the use or application of drugs in these terrorist interrogations is never brought up.
Only 12 short of the RECORD!!!!
>>Torture includes inflicting pain or fear of death to coerce speech.
I can’t say I feel upset. I guess I ought to.
I do think its wrong both as a Christian and as a constitutionalist. And I think its unwise for us to do it.
>>I simply don’t believe this story. First, it’s at odds with other stories about the waterboarding of KSM, and it just doesn’t make logical sense.<
That’s an interesting point.
I said may be. I didn't say is.
I don't think it should be done by our uniformed military personnel. Whom, I believe should only follow the guidelines for interrogation as outlined in the Army Field Manuel.
But, I think that these "enhanced" techniques are allowed and probably necessary for America's safety, but should be executed only by non-uniformed personnel.
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