Posted on 06/28/2009 3:27:52 AM PDT by Scanian
The four-year college degree has come to cost too much and prove too little. It's now a bad deal for the average student, family, employer, professor and taxpayer.
A student who secures a degree is increasingly unlikely to make up its cost, despite higher pay, and the employer who requires a degree puts faith in a system whose standards are slipping. Too many professors who are bound to degree teaching can't truly profess; they don't proclaim loudly the things they know but instead whisper them to a chosen few, whom they must then accommodate with inflated grades. Worst of all, bright citizens spend their lives not knowing the things they ought to know, because they've been granted liberal-arts degrees for something far short of a liberal-arts education.
I'm not arguing against higher learning but for it -- and against the degree system that stands in its way.
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
It's very interesting except for that. He's basically saying that teachers, like politicians, should police themselves.
The teaching profession has become like the counseling profession: If your student/client is educated/healed you lose your income. As long as they remain uneducated/unhealed you get to make more money.
It’s like dermatology, the patient never dies and the patient never gets better.
The problems began when every student was pushed and encouraged into a higher education system that was designed for the upper 20% of high school graduates. Students were discouraged from pursuing training and careers in the skilled trades, which in most cases paid more.
A new "national standard" is going to be just as useless if the standard itself is bogus. In history, for example, will the standard be racism, sexism, multiculuralist crap? Or will it be genuine knowledge of history?
But the author does miss this very important point:
Anymore, most students to NOT go for a four-year degree, and indeed the pay value of that degree has fallen a lot, esp. compared to potential debt levels. But I've seen studies that show that the "wage gap" between the advanced degree and the BA/BS is enormous, and the wage gap between a Ph.D. and a high school degree is even bigger.
And there is one last thing: as Rush has correctly pointed out, in the Ivy League and very big name schools (Stanford, Berkeley, Michigan) it's not about the education, it's about the connections and the pedigree. We've interviewed dozens of Ivy League kids for positions, and some are extremely smart---but most are highly average and at the same time, extremely not "down to earth." Often they are quirky and detached. As I recall, we only hired one, and he left immediately.
I recently realized my increase in pay for going to college doesn’t make up for the money I would have earned over that 7.5 years plus the money I’m losing trying to pay off the debt I racked up in loans and credit cards during college. My job isn’t really anymore fulfilling than working in a factory either.
Maybe I’m wrong.
There aren’t a lot of jobs out there paying decent money (apart from the trades) that don’t require a 4 year degree to get in the door, so to advise people away from that, IMO, is not wise.
However, we should be advising people to seek ways to lower the cost of college. Our son earned a BA and is about to get his Masters and has yet to pay a penny of tuition. Dual credit, tuition grants for in state students, graduate assistantships during graduate work, all give tuition free education. Then if the student lives at home, the cost of room and board is negated.
I will say that this summer (for a summer job) our son had 4 job offers and he didn’t put out that many resumes in our area. So I think a degree does pay off, if you don’t break the bank in order to obtain it.
BTW, his perspiration described in the articles last few paragraphs is remarkably similar to what's offered by the armed services for it's enlisted members.
No college degrees, Rush, Glenn Beck, Sean; top 1%, etc.
The problem with people attending trade schools is that they don’t get indoctrinated with liberalism learning how to operate a drill press.
Things will be OK once we get home college in effect.
How about a fairness doctrine for Universities!
No offense, but aren't most of those paid for by other students' tuition, and taxes? And the GTA's, as good an opportunity as they are for grad students (I was one), dillute the worth of the BA even more, while allowing the colleges to save money and put it in their trust funds and over-pay administrators, deans, chancellors, provosts, composts, etc.
Puddleglum, you may be right about GTAs (had American History taught by a Chinese GTA that could barely speak English in 1973) but dual credit and tuition grants are earned through hard work by the student, something that should be encouraged, IMO. The basic point is there are ways to reduce the cost while still getting the benefit.
No, but they do learn about trade unions.
Well Dual Credit is paid by local school taxes that each homeowner pays (we homeschooled through 9th grade and then used dual credit for high school.) I had no qualms about using the local school taxes that I had been paying in through property taxes for many years. The student earns their HS diploma and AA at the same time.
Our state program that allowed him to get his BA is financed by the lottery...so I have no problem with that either.
The GA position counting tuition reimbursement and small stipend equals about 20 bucks per hour, not too bad, but that’s for a degreed person willing to work a GA’s hours, which in my kid’s case are very erratic. Some days he’ll have GA responsibilities from 8:30 in the AM till 9 PM. Then later in the week have to come back for an hour here or an hour there. I don’t know about enhancing the coffers of the university, but I do think you’ve have a hard time finding someone looking for a regular job, willing to work the schedule, without the motivation of already having to be on campus for classes themselves.
Good - this is what high school should be about. Kids should not have to re-learn stuff in college that they should be mastering in high school, were high schools not watered down with low expectations.
As to lotteries, I would need to check to see if state tuition went up even though the lottery was in effect. If so, I'd be tempted to believe that the lottery simply offset spending rather than funding a dedicated program.
Still, I am glad you have a hard-working son who is not going to emerge from college with a mountain of debt. No college student should have to. College should be affordable if the student works.
The problem is that the focus has been put on the piece of paper instead of the actual skills and knowledge being acquired. In many cases colleges fail to prepare students for the real world because of the poor quality of the generic education that is offered.
That said, I’m working on my MBA and wouldn’t hire anyone without a degree.
Get a job, join the military, pay for your education or as much of it as you can. It is still an investment in your future.
The comments may make you question the value of a college degree.
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