Posted on 10/11/2009 6:14:33 AM PDT by decimon
WASHINGTON – In the chaos of an early morning assault on a remote U.S. outpost in eastern Afghanistan, Staff Sgt. Erich Phillips' M4 carbine quit firing as militant forces surrounded the base. The machine gun he grabbed after tossing the rifle aside didn't work either.
When the battle in the small village of Wanat ended, nine U.S. soldiers lay dead and 27 more were wounded. A detailed study of the attack by a military historian found that weapons failed repeatedly at a "critical moment" during the firefight on July 13, 2008, putting the outnumbered American troops at risk of being overrun by nearly 200 insurgents.
Which raises the question: Eight years into the war against the Taliban in Afghanistan, do U.S. armed forces have the best guns money can buy?
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
Does anyone have any data on the failure rate of the M-1 Garand? Not the usual BS but actual data.
If the article is true... how much do you want to bet the M4 in question was dry? It should have been hosed down with lubricant, and kept that way.
I would imagine that in the terrain would be horrible on all weapons. Except maybe an knife.
Keep it clean. It will keep you alive.
Ship them lube. Lots of lube. Obama will make sure they will need it.
Reports reaching the top commanders don’t always reflect the real situation on the ground.
The M-16 has had lots of problems (but was always described in the reports to higher ups as being OK...)
How come the Afghans can use a 50 year-old designed AK-47 and never seem to have any problems with it (nor do any of the other groups which have used it over the past decades, including the Viet Cong; and all under a vast array of difficult conditions)
and we keep changing our weapons, making them more complex, and hence less reliable?
FYI
The REAL problem we OUGHT to be talking about
McChrystal/obama new strategy/ROE’s:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/21/AR2009092100110.html
A 3x Iraq vet told me the opposite just 4 drops of oil on the carrier, dry bottom half (hammer etc) 1 drop on bolt and keyway each
a 14.5” gun is a problem in mountain fighting what was it doing in an outpost? how are you supposed to hit enemies 200 yards away with an m4 when the effective range of the gun is 90 yards beyond that it will not fragment.
Makes ya wonder, doesnt it.
Of course the time things break is when they are under pressure. So it isnt unusual to discover your weapon doesnt work at the time you need it most.
Maybe if we had a president who also bought bullets, the guns would do better.
Could you provide your thoughts on this matter?
Send them the comic book on how to clean and lube the rifle.Works every time if it has been cleaned and properly lubricated.
That's funny; in basic, the instructor referred to "Barrel by Colt, Handle by Mattel." Guess we just weren't high up enough...
I doubt any of the groups using the 50 year-old AK’s has done a reliability study or after action report.
I’ve owned an M-16, AR-15, and two AK-47s (albeit one was a Romanian WASR 10/63). The AR-15 was by far the most expensive, but also by far the best rifle. The AKs are durable as hell, the WASR has never jammed even after countless bumpfiring. Accurate they aren’t, but easy to modify and pack a wallop that equivalent American guns can’t touch. The M-16 was horrible for the price (I paid around $750 back in ‘98). Why do we lose insurgency conflicts/guerilla wars/occupations? Because our military and weaponry are designed to sweep and conquer, not to police.
Perhaps the U.S. military should scrap the M-4 in favor of AKs. I hear that Izhmash, the manufacturer of the AK rifles, is bankrupt and seeking a buyer. Perhaps the U.S. government should buy it?
There is nothing wrong with the M4. This is another bullsht article to cover for lack of plan 0bama has in afghanistan.
Exactly. When Reagan defeated Carter, he called in Tom Moorer and Mark Hill and asked what he should do to repair the damage done the military. The first thing Admiral Moorer growled was “Fill up the bins, fill up the bins!” The first failure of these kinds of idiots is to allow the parts and supply chain to go bad while they have their man preen for power. What happened to the thread by the old Jewish guy who was bemooaning that he had not seen the One on TV for a whole six hours? That hilariously nailed it.
I didn’t see anything mentioned about the type of powder being used in ammunition the troops were using.I wonder if they were using smokeless powder or the junk that they were using during the Vietnam war.
During the 70’s I was required to use that crap and when you fired your weapon there would be so much carbon(soot)lineing the bolt that the damn thing would hardly fire after 90 rounds.
Just oiling the weapon would make an even bigger mess because that carbon would become very sticky and really screw things up.
You would basically have to field strip the weapon and thouroughly clean it to get it working right.
In combat you don’t have the luxury of time to. Do that.
I just hope the DOD isn’t buying cheep ammunition and putting our troops at risk.
Ship them Rules Of Engagement that doesnt leave them worrying if they can be charged with war crimes if they make a mistake. Ship them more more troops so that they are not short handed. And most of all, give them a commander in chief that isnt worried more about Public Opinion polls in Europe or pissing of Muslim murderers.
And when Obama does away with “dont ask, dont tell” thats the time to send them more Lube.
First day of Marine Corps bootcamp we sang, “My rifle is my life, I wanna be free to shoot and to kill my enemy. My rifle is my life.” Marines drill the importance of their weapon into them, Army not so much.
Below is the Marine Corps Rifle creed:
This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will...
My rifle and myself know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit...
My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will ever guard it against the ravages of weather and damage as I will ever guard my legs, my arms, my eyes and my heart against damage. I will keep my rifle clean and ready. We will become part of each other. We will...
Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life.
So be it, until victory is America’s and there is no enemy, but peace!
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