Honduras and the United States: What’s Wrong With This Picture?

The Center for Vision & Values at Grove City College ^ | October 12, 2009 | By Dr. Mark W. Hendrickson

[normanpubbie]

Let's start with these gems from the posted article:

He wanted to change the provision stipulating that presidents are limited to one term.
Article 239 of that constitution explicitly states that a president who takes any steps to tamper with that provision forfeits the office.

Um, no. That's not what Article 239 says. Here it is in English:

ARTICLE 239 .- The citizen who has been conferred the title of Chief Executive may not be President or Vice President of the Republic. (forbidding term extension or reelection).
Anyone who violates this provision or proposes its reform, as well as those who directly or indirectly support it, are to immediately cease the discharge of their duties and shall be disqualified for ten (10) years from exercising any public office.

As stated in the article, it can be invoked for only two causes: First, remaining in office after term end or second proposing that the amendment be revised.

Zelaya was removed from office six months before his term was to end, so the first provision does not apply. And for the second provision to apply, he would actually have to "propose its reform" (argue or state that the provision be dropped). Problem is, he never said that he wanted a second term or that his original term be extended. What he thought or wanted is immaterial -- the article requires action. And no one has been able to document any time when Zelaya proposed term extension or dumping Article 239.

Zelaya was warned by Honduras’ supreme court to cease stirring up mobs in support of his bid to prolong his presidency.

Can you document this statement, professor? Didn't think so.

On June 28, the court — backed by both political parties (including Zelaya’s), the congress, the Catholic Church, and the business sector — removed Zelaya from office.

The SC did not remove him from office, the National Congress did in its Decreto 141-2009 of June 28th.

...the court asked the military to fly Zelaya to Costa Rica.

Can you document this statement, professor? Didn't think so.

The problem that Dr. Hendrickson has is that he has repeated inaccuracies reported by someone else rather than researching what actually happened. It is inappropriate for college professors to conduct such sloppy scholarship.

[Texas Fossil]

Before I comment on your post, I must do some homework.

This is to indicate I have not ignored your opinion.

[normanpubbie]

Take as much time as you need. Here is how I suggest you research the subject:

I have used as my sources three official Honduran documents. These are the Constitution of 1982 as amended, the Special Communique issued by the Supreme Court on June 30th, and Legislative Decree 141-2009 of June 28th removing Zelaya from office/installing Micheletti as President. I posted links to these documents in another Free Republic thread (comment #169). The Constitution and the legislative decree are available in English at the links.

To understand what happened in Honduras and why, you really need to look at the sequence of events as reported in the Special Communique issued by the Honduran Supreme Court and published here. It is only two or three pages long and in Spanish but it is clearly written. To translate it into English, copy the text, open http://translate.google.com, and paste the text into the box.

[ErnstStavroBlofeld]

http://media.sfexaminer.com/documents/2009-002965HNRPT.pdf

Honduran Congressional report

[ErnstStavroBlofeld]

CRS Honduran Congressional Report

http://media.sfexaminer.com/documents/2009-002965HNRPT.pdf

[ErnstStavroBlofeld]

Great Article

[Texas Fossil]

TNX

[normanpubbie]

That's not a Honduran Congressional report, it's an opinion written by an American foreign law researcher for the Law Library of Congress division of the United States Congress.

Yes, I have studied this report.

[ErnstStavroBlofeld]

Whatever

[Art in Idaho]

The Marx Brothers want Zelaya back in power. Simple as that. Birds of a feather. . .

[Art in Idaho]

Hey Barack Obama, have you seen this sign from Tegucigalpa?

[Texas Fossil]

Have thought about your attempt at refuting Mr. Hendrickson’s article.

Your whole argument hinges on a Google machine translation of a portion of their constitution and ridicule of some of the statements that Mr. Hendrickson made as being unsubstantiated. I am not fluent in Spanish and it appears that you are not either, since you mentioned the google translator.

I use machine translations daily and find Google’s translator very good. But the structure of the English language and Spanish are very different. Anyone who has used machine translators understands that context is often distorted by this structural difference.

Some Constitutional scholars here in the U.S. have stated that his removal was lawful.

Rather than look at a sentence in the Constitution of Honduras, I am looking at the events as they unfold in Honduras.

There is evidence that Zelaya used whether a patient at a hospital supported the constitutional changes or not to deny medical treatment. (Why do you think Obozo is so committed to his Healthcare legislation and to having the FDA control U.S. food production- answer - they are hammers to subject a people) This is about a planned decent into totalitarianism.

I am not questioning your motives, but find it odd here to defend the puppet of Chavez and Lula (also Obozo) on this forum.

The pattern of Zelaya’s actions will eventually be exposed as will Obozo’s lies, treachery, deceit and treason. Both will ultimately be exposed and discredited.

Respectfully,

TF

[normanpubbie]

If you use the Googlebot daily then you know that its translations are so bad that they are almost comical.

I suggested using the Google translator because I figured you might not read Spanish. The translations I provided are my own, except the legislative decree, which someone else did but is pretty close to mine.

I do use the Google translator because it makes translating Spanish articles a lot easier. First I translate using the Googlebot, then I go back sentence by sentence and correct the translation. That way I just have to type the corrections, not the whole bloody article.

Some Constitutional scholars here in the U.S. have stated that his removal was lawful.

Rather than look at a sentence in the Constitution of Honduras, I am looking at the events as they unfold in Honduras.

The whole issue is the constitutionality of removing and replacing Zelaya. To determine that, you have to look at the Constitution, one sentence or the whole thing. And because my interpretation of the Constitution is different from "some Constitutional scholars," that doesn't make it wrong.

The problem with citing anecdotal evidence against Zelaya is that Zelaya's side can make accusations, too.

I do not defend Zelaya. I have never defended Zelaya. In my first post on this subject in early July, I called him a "fascist thug" and my opinion hasn't changed.

But I do defend the Constitution. It was violated on June 28th and the interim government has continued to violate it, suspending a number of Constitutional articles in the past month. And I expect that the interim government will violate more of the Constitution in the coming weeks.

And BTW, I think Obama is an unqualified jerk. But what do his moves have to do with what Hondurans did on June 28th?

[Texas Fossil]

Here is an interesting tweet that I ran across this evening on the #Honduras hash code. It relates to the cell phone use by Zelaya at the Brazilian Embassy.

“Arrest warrant against former manager of CONATEL # Honduras (now staying in c # Zelaya Brazilian Embassy)”

Sounds like an X-manager of the cell phone company is in deep doo.

[Dan(9698)]

I don’t do tweet.

Was he arrested for helping Zelaya, or something like that?

[Texas Fossil]

“Was he arrested for helping Zelaya, or something like that?”

As I understand it he is actually in the Embassy with Zelaya. And they have a warrant for him, but he has not been arrested yet.

No hard news about this yet.

[ErnstStavroBlofeld]

I agree with you.