Posted on 10/29/2009 9:14:09 AM PDT by jazusamo
The Federal Aviation Administration's decision to revoke the licenses of the pilots of the Northwest jetliner that lost radio contact with controllers last week threatens to disrupt voluntary safety reporting programs used by pilots, according to industry officials and aviation-safety experts.
Immediately after FAA regulators on Tuesday revoked the licenses of both pilots aboard Northwest Flight 188, leaders of the largest U.S. pilot union began complaining and planning a response, these officials said.
Officials of the Air Line Pilots Association decided on Wednesday that the government's enforcement move violated the spirit, and probably the letter, of voluntary incident reporting and data-sharing arrangements in place at Northwest parent Delta Air Lines Inc. and other airlines.
FAA officials have rejected such claims, asserting that voluntary disclosure programs were never meant to cover intentional violations such as those committed by the Northwest cockpit crew.
Designed to foster pilot-airline cooperation on safety initiatives, voluntary incident reporting programs are widely regarded as powerful tools to help airlines, pilots and government regulators, identify and deal with budding safety hazards.
Each carrier has set up its own detailed procedures allowing pilots to confidentially disclose all types of safety lapses and mistakes, without fear of punishment from airline management or government enforcement officials.
A special review committee -- usually consisting of pilots, management and FAA representatives -- is authorized to analyze the data, interview the pilots and then determine if the incident qualifies as a legitimate voluntary disclosure event.
When it comes to Flight 188, the union contends the mandatory committee review procedure was never followed and the FAA jumped the gun by meting out punishment to pilots who voluntarily and in good faith answered questions from investigators. The incident review committee is scheduled to meet Thursday, according to two people familiar with the matter.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
Any commercial pilots here who might comment on this?
It looks to me like they're complaining about a lack of due process, which may be a legitimate complaint. The result may end up the same, but they're entitled to due process like anyone else, especially if there are specific agreements in place with the FAA.
Good point, I thought about that but don’t know what the powers of the FAA are in a case like this.
Each carrier has set up its own detailed procedures allowing pilots to confidentially disclose all types of safety lapses and mistakes, without fear of punishment from airline management or government enforcement officials.
What the union appears to be saying is that a heavy-handed approach to this kind of incident by the FAA will ultimately serve as an incentive for pilots and airlines NOT to report incidents like this in the future. I don't know what the terms of the labor agreement are, so I'm not sure if their argument is sound on that basis.
The self reporting system is intended for minor infractions. A flight crew deviating from its flight plan for 150 miles hardly represents the spirit of that agreement. All traffic in the area was put at risk.
I would expect to lose my privileges if I did this in a single pilot situation, much less a 2 pilot professional crew.
I dunno about “due process” but it sounds like the pilots admitted to sufficient facts to have their tickets pulled. Should have gone with the “radio failure” alibi. No one would believe that either, but at least it puts the FAA in the position of proving a negative.
Agreed.
maybe jimmy bikeshorts (Oberstar) can give them a special union exemption..
That’s kind of the way I look at it but am not familiar with FAA rules of union agreements.
Hi, I was a C210N Turbo driver too.
Union agreements have NOTHING to do with fundamental airspace safety. I don’t want to share the air with these two deadbeats.
Quite possibly true, but it appears that the due process in question is for exactly this situation, where the pilots voluntarily and honestly discuss what happened. There is a process for determining whether their admissions fall under the exemption/immunity for self-reporting. They may very well not, but it appears that they are at least entitled to that process before enforcement action takes place.
The volunteer reporting mechanism clearly spells out some things that pilots have done that they are not immune from by reporting the incident. Such as: anything criminal or resulting in an accident. Infractions of FAA rules, if reported (you have a short period after the incident, like 24 hours or some-such) within the time window, are not enforceable.
It seems they should have been suspended, but their certificates remaining in place until a determination is made about what happened up there.
BTW, what did happen up there? Has anyone heard anything yet? Anything at all?...
It seems like the FAA are the one’s who are out of communication.
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The FAA is not required to allow a “voluntary reporting” board to meet before it decides what it will do. The pilot’s ticket is authorized by the FAA and the FAA alone. if they want to pull you ticket then you don’t fly.
“The union....” that says it all. I am so tired of unions whining and complaining and then going on strike so their ‘leadership’ group can have more money. Never do they strike for passenger safety, patient concerns, students inprovements.....it is always for money and BENEFITS.
For those of us who work hard and get tired of the yammering, just once we would like to see the union do the right thing
Roger that
“Has anyone heard anything yet?”
The official statement is they were working on their laptops. I personally think they were both asleep and the laptop is a coverup for public consumption.
You do not understand this system at all. This is intended for near misses and things of that sort. These pilots were so far out of line not only for the FAA requirements but their company rules and regs it is not even funny.
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