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Odd Challenge: Lying, is it constitutionally protected?
One News Now ^ | 2/4/2010 | Chad Groening

Posted on 02/04/2010 1:16:04 PM PST by AstroTurf _Queen

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To: Jewbacca
"The question here is whether stolen valor is “speech” and, if so, fraud."

The name of the act, "Stolen Valor", is somewhat misleading. A soldier who legitimately demonstrated valor in the service of his country can't have his valor stolen...nor his intelligence, honesty, or any other character trait. The coward who falsely wears decorations and awards is "stealing" or misrepresenting the material commendation (i.e ribbon or medal) received for the valor.

If you think of "valor", like intelligence, as a type of human capital, I think it's easier to see how this does bleed into the area of fraud. I suspect you generally agree with intellectual property protections. People don't wrongfully appropriate somebody's intelligence or thoughts, but rather the written, diagramed, representations of those thoughts which they then portray as their own. Similarly, one doesn't "steal valor", but represents another's (the real winners of such awards) as their own.

It may not be as marketable in monetary terms, but it is still personal capital. Can you mention one instance where a person would misrepresent themselves as a medal winner where it was not for some type of personal advantage?

81 posted on 02/04/2010 4:33:45 PM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: AstroTurf _Queen

It depends on what the meaning of the word “is” is.


82 posted on 02/04/2010 4:38:52 PM PST by rdl6989 (January 20, 2013 The end of an error.)
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To: Jewbacca

The Declaration is the first document in the US Code.

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/organiclaws.txt

To deny the Natural Law basis of our founding is to reject the basis of our Constitution. “That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men,” are not empty words.


83 posted on 02/04/2010 4:49:45 PM PST by Jacquerie (More Central Planning is not the solution to the failures of Central Planning.)
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To: El Gato
The jury. Civil or criminal depending.

Usually, but we are talking about the rapid slide to despotism here, in that "truth" is relative or worse yet, what the powers-that-be will say it is. Already we have their sympathetic synophants in the press declaring their lies as truth. There would be no jury in a world under the complete control of a despot.

84 posted on 02/04/2010 5:18:19 PM PST by pray4liberty (Luke 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.)
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To: Joe 6-pack
I think anybody who lies about his unearned medals and service is committing a form of fraud, IF those lies are deployed to benefit him. It's the same fraud committed by those people who lie about their qualifications on a resume.

It appears there is an agenda to take the First Amendment and twist it like a pretzel, rendering it meaningless. When the First goes, all the others will follow, and none of us will have any rights anymore.

85 posted on 02/04/2010 5:32:53 PM PST by pray4liberty (Luke 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.)
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To: pray4liberty
"I think anybody who lies about his unearned medals and service is committing a form of fraud, IF those lies are deployed to benefit him."

Give me one example where somebody would wear an unearned medal that was not intended to benefit them...even if it was simply for self-aggrandizement, or because the pretty colors matched their clothes and eyes, it's (at least in their mind) advantageous to wear it.

86 posted on 02/04/2010 5:46:39 PM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Jewbacca
I don’t disagree with you, but your Supreme Court does and has for 100 years.

Hmmm, that's about as long as the SC has been screwed up, right?
87 posted on 02/04/2010 6:15:27 PM PST by aruanan
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To: Joe 6-pack
Give me one example where somebody would wear an unearned medal that was not intended to benefit them...even if it was simply for self-aggrandizement, or because the pretty colors matched their clothes and eyes, it's (at least in their mind) advantageous to wear it.

They are using the medals as jewelry then to create a false impression. From a moral standpoint, this is deception to the onlooker, since each medal means something.

What these braggarts want is attention, and the remedy is to ignore them totally or call them on their elaborate lies in front of everybody (public humiliation). Once found out they usually slink away.

88 posted on 02/04/2010 6:24:17 PM PST by pray4liberty (Luke 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.)
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To: Jewbacca
You are free to lie; not free to defraud.

You are also not free to defame, that is injure another with your lie. So, only if your lie does not defraud, or defame (libel if written, slander if spoken), are you free to lie without legal repercussion. Defamation can be either a civil or criminal matter.

It can be argued that real veterans, and real medal recipients are demeaned or defamed by the fakers, and so the law can protect them.

Personally I'd just as soon see the real ones beat the snot out of the fakes. Including of course John F'n Kerry.

89 posted on 02/04/2010 8:15:14 PM PST by El Gato ("The second amendment is the reset button of the US constitution"-Doug McKay)
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To: oneamericanvoice

Please accept my thanks for your service. It is very much appreciated!

CA....


90 posted on 02/04/2010 9:35:18 PM PST by Chances Are (Whew! Seems I've found that silly grin again!)
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To: AstroTurf _Queen
Wow, a new low!

The abyss has no limit of them.

91 posted on 02/04/2010 11:24:18 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (governance is not sovereignty [paraphrasing Bishop Fulton Sheen].)
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To: Jacquerie

The US Code is law. Law is subject to the Constitution. The Constitution is not subject to law.


92 posted on 02/05/2010 8:01:15 AM PST by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: El Gato

I just think it’s too nebulous of a harm to be actionable.

By the same logic by “lying” (as defined by Al Gore) about Global Warming, you are harming every American by threatening our very existance!

I think this should be settled by an ass-whooping, not a law.


93 posted on 02/05/2010 8:02:43 AM PST by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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