Posted on 02/10/2010 5:39:36 PM PST by neverdem
Army Lieutenant Dan Choi, who made national news when he was served with discharge papers after coming out on the Rachel Maddow Show, has rejoined his unit, according to Jeff Sheng at The Bilerico Project. Mr. Sheng, who spoke with the lieutenant, explained the situation thusly:
Apparently, Lt. Choi's commander has always been in full support of him, and even after Lt. Choi came out on The Rachel Maddow Show, his commander did not press for his discharge. The military did eventually serve Lt. Choi a discharge notification - essentially firing him from his job, but he was allowed to fight this at trial, and as it currently stands, the discharge has not been finalized. Given the current state of how DADT is in such flux, and also, in my opinion, the prominence and celebrity of Lt. Choi, his discharge might never be fully enforced.
A Quinnipiac Poll released this morning reports that 57 percent of respondents think gays should be able to serve openly in the military, and 82 percent think the military should stop pursuing disciplinary action against gays who are currently serving.
Senator Kirsten Gillibrand has frequently cited a June meeting with Mr. Choi as an inspiration to push the Senate for repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," which resulted in a Senate hearing that saw two of the top brass voice their opposition to the policy last week.
"Senator Gillibrand has said on many occassions that she doesn't want another servicemember discharged from the U.S. Armed Forces due to this discriminatory policy," said a spokesperson, Glen Caplin, by email. "She will not be satisfied until the 'Don't Ask Don't Tell' policy is fully repealed and every servicemember facing discharge can be reinstated to service."
the Israelis don’t have a problem with homosexuals in their military...One of their generals was quoted in the WSJ saying, “If you don’t make THAT the issue, its not an issue.”
IF we have women in the military and in supportive combat missions, it is really hypocritical to discharge homosexual military personnel.
I have long thought gays in the military is not a good idea, but if Israel’s army has no problems and we already have females in the military, it makes me think twice.
We have discharged 13,000 during the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy....how many “women” have we discharged and why were they let go?
His commander should be facing charges then, himself. He has an obligation under DOD policy to initiate an investigation. He didn't. He's derelict in his duties, IMHO.
Commanders don't get to evaluate and pass judgment on DOD policy. That's not their prerogative. The policy, and the UCMJ are clear in these circumstances.
Of course, given the current chain of command, nothing will happen. The writing is on the wall. Soon, sailors will be disembarking from ships during NY fleet-week wearing knee length dresses and sensible pumps. It makes me sick. If that makes me a homo-phobe, then I'm a homo+phobe.
Here's the problem with such a poll. I don't have the data in front of me but I would guess that the percentage of the American population who have served in the military and who thus know the problems associated with homosexuals in military units is below 5 percent. So, that 82 percent of the public thinking the military should accept them are basically blowing smoke out of their, well, you know what.
By the way, it is my understanding that the Israelis do not have homosexuals serving in military ground forces. Could be wrong, but I think I read that yesterday here on FR.
A) Israel, because of the population numbers, needs everyone they can get. They just don't have a choice.
And B), Israel does not have nearly the same percentage of service men and women forward deployed in isolated stations or ships, as America does. It's one thing to manage homosexuals and their proclivities while in garrison. It's quite another to do it under the stresses of deployment and combat.
This will be a mess of EPIC proportion.
You never know what you’ll miss when you miss the Rachel Maddow show.
This is a strength that I have seen in liberals from which conservatives could benefit. Seemingly, leftists are patient. The whittle and whittle and whittle and it may take decades, but eventually they get what they want.
We tend to demand immediacy and when we don’t get it, we turn to another issue. They keep on slight, but constant pressure. We make a big push and if it doesn’t succeed, we move on. We are almost an ADD political movement. Incrementalism pays off.
Interesting points made.
I would be interested to see what the stats are and the differences.
So, of course, it would not be feasable to have military “segregated” by gays and females to not serve in combat or far off supportive services. I really would not see a problem if there were “translators” or administrative duties stateside for females or gays, but of course, we would then have lawsuits from the ACLU. Karpinski( of Abu Grabe fiasco) comes to mind.
the whole discussion can not even be had because of political correctness...sort of like we can’t weigh the value of “profiling” in security issues.
Allowing homosexuals to serve openly in the military would not be the end of this. That would only justify further attempts to legalize gay marriage. After all, if a homosexual can die for his country, why can’t he have the right to marry the person of his choosing? And, once gay marriage is permitted, no public school will be permitted to teach anything other than all families are equal. The traditional family of one man and one woman would not be given preferential treatment.
I read the Bible, so I know it’s going to be like Sodom and Gomorrah in the last days (wise people would read and heed). That’s looking more and more likely every day, but it doesn’t necessarily mean these are the end of days. Perhaps there will be a reawakening in the world and a return to morality before the final fall.
It’s one thing to allow homosexuals to live in peace. It’s completely different to normalize their aberration and reinforce it by giving it the sanction of marriage or protected status in the military. Homosexuality is just that, a defect, a mental illness. It may be common, but so are other perversions.
Homosexuals deserve sympathy, not control over society!
“If you don’t make THAT the issue, its not an issue.”
That’s what dont ask dont tell was/is all about.
And (C) “EVERYONE” in Israel is DRAFTED and REQUIRED to serve.
It’s a completely militarized state. I had friends who were fulltime workers with long careers required to do military service.
We have a volunteer military.
Big diff.
Kudlow '80 Or 90 Precent' Likely To Challenge Schumer
FReepmail me if you want on or off my New York ping list.
The gay/lesbian lobbies work unceasingly to minimize this truth and prevent it from being known.
The Israeli armed forces, conscription forces, serve only in Israel. The U. S. military is a volunteer force which recruits many of its service people right out of high school through the appeal of a wholesome atmosphere to both recruits and their parents.
U. S. forces serve around the world—and the primary battlefield in the world for decades to come is the battlefield involving Islamic countries and Jihadists.
Islam, and especially the Jihadist categories so prevalent today. does not take kindly to homosexuality. Simply being accused of even the tendencies can result in the killing of the subject person.
REMEMBER: IT IS AGAINST THEIR RELIGION WHICH THEY TAKE MOST SERIOUSLY.
U. S. troops work with and alongside native forces in many Islamic countries, i.e., Iraq and Afghanistan.
It is a certainty that anti-western factions/fighters, whether Al Queda or other of the many radical Islamist groups, and Arab countries themselves, would use the presence of open homosexuals in the U. S. Armed Forces to rally the populations against the American presence—and indeed to depict the Americans as nothing less than deserving death ALONG WITH ALL THOSE WHO WORK WITH AMERICANS IN THESE COUNTRIES.
A prime tool in this, in addition to the ever-emphasis on religion, would be instilling of fear of HIV/AIDS among the population—not necessarily acquired through sexual contact but through ANY contact with an American soldier, even being in the presence.
Are we to bring about defeat in the struggle against radical/militant Islam through the social experiment/political pay-back (Obama’s) forcing of open homosexuality into the ranks of our armed forces?
HIV is being put under the table in the arguments about gays in the military. It should NOT be.
Part of the soldier’s life is depending on the buddy system—which itself will face plenty of problems with open gays—but also having the ever-present possibility of having to give first-aid to fellow soldiers involving bodily fluids, especially blood.
Even with segregation of male and female service members, there is still a problem with fraternization. But, once the barrier of segregation is removed - to include the berthing areas - there is NOTHING to stop this phenomenon. Without writing a book, I can tell you that fraternization leads to discipline and morale problems - lover spats are bad in the civilian workplace, but they can be down right fatal in the military world.
Thanks for the ping!
You have answered many questions I have had.and raised some issues I had not considered.
Your analysis and articulation was thorough and right on target.
I think the “don’t ask, don’t tell “ policy has allowed many gays to serve. Your arguments re Islamic cultures bears
serious consideration.
The political correctness has kept the military from using a rational way to incoporate women and gays who want to serve their country in our armed forces. We would not be able to refuse to let openly gay persons or women serve in or near the combat areas, even if that did serve our military interests.
Because of political correctness, we are forced into a black or white dilemma....either let anyone serve anywhere in any capacity or be called “discriminatory” ...no discussions, no rational thinking through circumstances in military terms, no delineations. That is what is destructive to our military and to anyone that is a woman or gay who wants to serve.
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